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Standard User normcall
(committed) Wed 29-Apr-15 15:53:36
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: TLM] [link to this post]
 
Also beware of their 'trick' assessment rooms without access for the disabled - also incurs 'possible delays'
All assesment rooms have to have suitable access (lift/flat level floor and suitable equipment) which many do not have for some reason.
Standard User TLM
(legend) Wed 29-Apr-15 17:21:55
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I am aware of all this - but only as a result of being a "likely" future claimant, and having contact with existing claimants.

All of us have an incurable degenerative disease, which means there's no question of anyone trying to "swing the lead", as it's called.

Fortunately in some ways, but unfortunately, perhaps, in others, all my symptoms at the moment are completely unprovable. You can't prove pain, you can't prove fatigue. Hence it's pointless applying for anything, as it's not objectively possible for me to prove anything.

Even with my consultant's input, he would only be able to say: "My patient has reported pain, my patient has reported fatigue" etc. - because he can't prove it either.

So effectively, his testimony would be worthless, because he can only reiterate things I've told him myself - which would be effectively the same as me saying them, uncorroborated. frown

Anyway, it was only a little hypothetical - I accept this is not a benefits website. I was just curious how people would go about it, IF they were determined they wanted to record their interview - without resorting to subterfuge.

True, a surreptitious recording may not be accepted as evidence. Then again, it may be, if the evidential value outweighs the dubious ethics of acquiring it in the first place. I.e. if you had proof that an assessor had distorted the facts - e.g. said your walking was unaffected, when you had answered unambiguously that you struggled to do 20 yards, it would surely outweigh the fact that you ought not really to have been recording.

At the very least, if you couldn't use it in court, you'd certainly be able to share it with interested parties such as the press, or your MP. The technical infraction of having recorded it would be minor in relation to the misconduct exposed.

T.
Standard User TLM
(legend) Wed 29-Apr-15 17:40:31
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: lelboy] [link to this post]
 
Oddly, ATOS are the very same people who are saying on their official website that if you want it recorded, you have to bring your own equipment.

Linky

Are you saying they are publishing official guidance which is in breach of a legal obligation to provide such equipment, if requested?

Sorry, but much as I distrust ATOS, I think even they would balk at publishing something that misrepresents the law on the subject, and that this would have been seized upon very quickly by the press, and by rights advocacy groups, had they tried it.

Of course, the guidance I've linked to is for PIP - it may be that the rules for ESA are different (if that's what your friend was trying to claim). Although I can't for the life of me see why they should be. Yes, the qualifying criteria are different, but I can't see any reason there should be different laws regarding entitlement to record the interview, and which party must or may provide the equipment!


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Standard User s_h
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 29-Apr-15 17:54:12
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: TLM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TLM:
So how, in practice, would anybody go about that, then? Effectively, you can't use ANY contemporary recording device, and you MUST be able to provide two identical hard copies (not digital files) at the end.
I was looking at your thread as it's listed on the Main Site's "active forum discussions" - it occurs to me if you're allowed or expected to use your own equipment, as one of your later links indicates, you could take in two of this sort of relatively inexpensive cassette recorder:

Philips AQ1001/05 Portable Audio Mono Cassette Recorder £26.99.

Then you would have two cassette tapes and could leave one and keep the other.

I realise it's still a lot of money for a claimant but might not be prohibitive if a lot rides on the outcome.

Edited by s_h (Wed 29-Apr-15 17:55:39)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Apr-15 18:38:14
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: TLM] [link to this post]
 
When a mandatory reconsideration is requested from the DWP after a failed WCA then the ATOS/Maximus HCP's written assessment is sent to the claimant. At the WCA, during the physical examination of the claimant, pain may be felt which would indicate restricted movement. This restricted movement could result in the awarding of points: points based on the claimant’s reported pain. If the pain causing restricted movement was not included in the HCP's report (and hence no points) then a recording of the assessment might be useful at the appeal if either the HCP or the claimant were voicing the exact nature of the manipulations being performed.

During the assessment phase of an ESA claim an assessment rate of ESA is paid dependant upon sick notes from a doctor. The sick note may be for chronic pain and in the opinion of the doctor the patient is unfit for work. So why have a WCA if sick notes can be provided long term? Instead the government prefers a private company to do medicals using a LiMA computer program operated by HCP's.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Apr-15 19:14:10
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Thing is with the likes of ATOS they are there to find you fit for work,they will use anything against you to paint a picture that you are in exelent health if they can, they have been known to purposly overlook limitations in mobility and the use of their computer software system LIMA is of help to no one apart from the DWP, They employ so called HCP's that are often less qualified than your GP or specialist consultant , they have a short 2 week training period on how to ignore their hypocratic oath ect, they are not doctors and you are not regarded as the patient for the farce called WCA

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 29-Apr-15 19:17:09)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Apr-15 19:29:28
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
I am aware of one case where the HCP was more concerned about doing a spell check than ensuring that the written assessment was accurate at the end of the "medical". In such cases an audio recording may indeed invalidate any misrepresentations.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Apr-15 19:49:21
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
It helps reduce the amount of lies, but they still are able to exaggerate some things in order to avoid giving points,So a recorded interview is no guarantee that a claimant will score enough points or even any to qualify for the benefit
And the MR hoop is often no better, Tribunal's tend to be better,but even they can get it wrong sometimes
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 29-Apr-15 20:06:54
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
It's the lifting an empty cardboard box descriptor that always amuses me - if you can, when seated at desk level, then you are fit for work. An audio recording wouldn't help much with that award of zero points!
Standard User lelboy
(committed) Wed 29-Apr-15 20:20:03
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Re: Recording a benefits assessment


[re: TLM] [link to this post]
 
Not sure where this is going, but...
Wasn't "trying to claim", but had claimed and received ESA - despite having to take it to appeal where, presumably, the panel decided not to use Atos's flawed advice. Got called up again when period expired, but he told ministry that he would NOT attend an Atos interview unless it was taped because, as I said before, Atos are past masters at manipulation of fact - to present, as others have said, their case for you being "suitable for work". The ministry then said that he can have the assessment recorded (this was NOT for PIP) by Atos. I should add that a second appeal was granted also.
I'm not inclined to keep repeating myself, as it appears that you almost "do not want" to be afforded the facility by the assessors. All I can tell you is what I know to be fact. Your comment about the "unlikelihood of Atos misrepresenting their position on line", is way of beam. Atos are known to tell lies (TV secret filming documentary), and given that they've lost the contract, then it's pretty much academic what they said "then" - as they are not going to be in a position to implement any alleged standpoint in future!
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