A pact with the BT Devil?

I'm stuck in a quandry with Be, and BT.

I've used Be as an ISP for nearly five years and I've generally been happy with them. I kicked their useless BeBox into the cupboard under the stairs, bought a decent Draytek router, and never looked back. I was rewarded with a rock solid 14mbit connection that has supported running my business web and mailserver, and VOIP connections without any serious problems. At one point I threatened to switch sides to O2 - who offered similar service for less. Be gave me a discount on my monthly bill, and I stayed put. I laughed at BT with their crapware infested 'BT yahoo customised' browsers, traffic shaping, slowdowns - and general inability to deliver a decent service...

However, I'm starting to think that all is not well in the Be world. Like many, I've also noticed the ever growing mystery packet loss, and the need to refresh my web browser before all the page furniture will return. Their position on fibre broadband is increasingly untenable. Yesterday, I received the "we're going to start mucking about with our network - and your IP address will change" email. I'm starting to think that it's time for a change, and that Be have just lost the plot.

I regard BT as "the great Satan" of the DSL business. Their marketing is aimed at idiots, and their call centres are staffed by a mix of semi-trained script monkeys, and jobsworths who couldn't find their own posterior with the aid of a mirror on a stick. I've worked with BT in a professional capacity - and although the good guys certainly do exist, they sure don't work in customer facing roles in BT retail... Where I live, I don't have a cable option - so realistically it's a DSL variant or nothing.

However... much as I hate them, BT are offering me a 56mbit FTTC connection for reasonable money. Many of you have migrated from Be, and even though you're not saying "Come on in, the water's lovely", you seem in general to say that you don't regret the move. Many years ago, I kicked BT into touch completely by moving my landline to the Post Office, both to save a few quid, and to rid myself of a company that I loathe. LLU'd in name only, but at least I didn't have to pay BT any money. However even the Post Office have now increased their charges and BT are now price competitive for landline again.

I really am tempted by the idea of a solid fibre connection, offering fast and genuinely unlimited data transfer - at a couple of quid more than I pay currently. As far as I can see, no ISP who piggy-backs a fibre offering on the back of Openreach infrastructure are offering 'genuinely unlimited', at least not at comparable pricing or without a traffic shaping AUP. Much as I respect (and would consider) Zen, AAISP and the other premium ISPs - they're either too expensive, or offer too little for the money. Quality of service and support due to my local hosting requirement is the most important factor in my decision - but cost is (and has to be) a major factor too. Anything over £30-40 a month would be too much to swallow.

So. I have a number of questions that are bothering me.

- Firstly, am I mad in even considering moving to BT? Surely BT can't have changed it's spots from the company that many of us know of old? Although I have deep mistrust based on many years of of watching them stuff their customers, if they can deliver the service that I need at the right price, I would consider returning to them. Their offer of free, unlimited Openzone access also appeals.

- Do they provide FTTC on a pseudo-LLU'd phone line, or is there a contract term that insists on a BT billed phone line as well?

- Will BT allow a 'residential' line (I'd need fixed IP) to host web and mailservers - or do they port block, or wave a TOS around stating that it's not allowed?

- If hosting isn't allowed on their 'Residential' package, or they don't offer fixed IP, do they allow 'business Infinity broadband' on a residential line?

And finally, in the worst set of circumstances, namely that I have to move both phone and broadband back to BT - what's the trick in doing so whilst minimising service downtime? I've heard various horror stories about Be wrongly placing ceases on associated phone lines when someone requests a MAC, so avoiding a week without either net or phone would help. Is it easier to move phone followed by Broadband, or just to hope that everything goes on one day?

Any thoughts or advice considered...

So many questions, so much confusion.

Thanks,
zG

Personally I would go for it with BT. If anybody can move the phone over correctly it's probably BT

However have you considered skys fibre. It's £30 a month for upto 80mbps and £20 a month for upto 40mbps. Also there is absolutely no traffic management or fair usage. So torrents etc all go at full wack.

Given BTs pricing etc on this one I can't see why you would stick around on BE

Given BTs pricing etc on this one I can't see why you would stick around on BE

I pondered and have just started the move to BT from BE; I'll post later how it went. However, I can see reasons to stick around with BE. There was one reason only for me that made me delay the decision to move: service. I also have a concern that BT's unlimited may well get congested even though (or almost because) it is not heavily managed. However, congestion seems to be hitting quite a few BE exchanges at the moment. For others, p2p throttling might be an issue with moving to BT. Sky wasn't an option for me as they don't offer 80/20 here, and upload speed is my main plus for moving.

Remember that BT is not a single monolithic company (well, it is but is not allowed to behave like one). BT OpenReach who provide the lines and exchange equipment and BT Retail who operate the ISP arm are quite different. If you get an FTTC line from someone else (there are many options) you will not be dealing with BT Retail at all. If you are concerned about BT/OR's support, go with an ISP who will push them (so you don't have to) when there is a problem (I can say nice things about A&A on this matter, and I'm told Zen provide similar quality customer service when there is a problem).

Other reasons to favour Be are certain technical matters: multiple IPv4 addresses which some find useful, and the ability to tweak line settings which can be a bonus for gamer types and others who use latency sensitive protocols a lot.

Though there are ISPs who provide the good service/support, and the same technical features (or better - A&A's network fully supports IPv6 across the board for instance), with no artificial throttling/shaping, who offer accounts on FTTC lines. You'll probably pay a little more then with BT and/or not get "unlimited", so it is a case of "you pays your money, you takes your choice". FYI I went with A&A and have not yet had any reason to regret that choice.

One of the issues involved with 'bucket and spade' ISPs, is that it's difficult to host your own mailserver on the connection. One of the key anti-spam measures employed by many mailservers - are a check against reverse DNS, in addition to an SPF query. Be were helpful enough to set the reverse DNS entry to a value that I requested, on the basis that they (like most ISPs) don't allow delegation of rdns to your own server. Asking mass-market ISPs (such as Sky etc) to do likewise, is unlikely to be successful (unless anybody knows differently)?

I suspect that my choice is going to come down to BT Infinity 'Option 2 for business' - assuming that BT allow a 'business' product on a residential line. Much as I like AAISP, Zen and so on - the costs don't really stack up.

For example:

BT Infinity option 2 for business (2yr min contract) - £30pm basic, £5 pm for 'unlimited', £5 p.m for fixed IP - Total £40+vat - (at full line speed, and offering bundled unlimited Openzone roaming.)
AAISP (12 month min contract) - based on 10gb peak, 200gb off peak - £54, £12pm uplift for uncapped speed - Total £66 plus VAT...
Zen (12 month min contract) - Fibre Pro product, based on 200gb download - £45.60 (plus VAT)

Its a shame that AAISP are so eye-wateringly expensive for larger peak-time data volumes - which are a serious consideration for a homeworking. I'm sure to an extent that you get what you pay for in terms of support levels, but the uplift for the >40mbit speed is just painful.

I must admit that I'm quite surprised about Zen though; they may be worth a second look. I used them prior to joining Be, leaving only because Be had a technically better offering, and offered greater bang-per-buck at the time. However, I certainly couldn't fault Zen's service. The risk you carry of course, is the overage charge, whereas BT's 'unlimited' is apparently genuine.

Zg

In reply to a post by ZaphodsGhost:

One of the issues involved with 'bucket and spade' ISPs, is that it's difficult to host your own mailserver on the connection. One of the key anti-spam measures employed by many mailservers - are a check against reverse DNS, in addition to an SPF query. Be were helpful enough to set the reverse DNS entry to a value that I requested, on the basis that they (like most ISPs) don't allow delegation of rdns to your own server. Asking mass-market ISPs (such as Sky etc) to do likewise, is unlikely to be successful (unless anybody knows differently)?

Sky use dynamic IPs so definitely no rdns control there.

'I suspect that my choice is going to come down to BT Infinity 'Option 2 for business' - assuming that BT allow a 'business' product on a residential line.'

That's what I currently have.

Quite happy with reliability and speed of the service. Costs a bit, though.

A mail server was one of my considerations too, and one of the advantages of A&A for me - they have the option of fully delegating reverse DNS, so my DNS servers are in full control of it for my assigned addresses (both the "main" one and the additional /29). Most ISPs that offer the option of multiple IPv4 addresses should have something useful in place for rDNS though, even if you only have one address with no need for more.

The cost of peak bandwidth on A&A is their main negative, though as I only work from home one or twice a month at most, and don't have family there using the connection during the day, it isn't a concern for my use pattern (my mail server and other "public" services don't see enough incoming traffic for it to be a problem for them either). Remember that outgoing traffic is not counted at any time (IIRC it isn't with Zen either), which depending on your traffic pattern during the working day might make quite a difference.

In reply to a post by ZaphodsGhost:

I'm stuck in a quandry with Be, and BT.

I've used Be as an ISP for nearly five years and I've generally been happy with them. I kicked their useless BeBox into the cupboard under the stairs, bought a decent Draytek router, and never looked back. I was rewarded with a rock solid 14mbit connection that has supported running my business web and mailserver, and VOIP connections without any serious problems. At one point I threatened to switch sides to O2 - who offered similar service for less. Be gave me a discount on my monthly bill, and I stayed put...

Nothing to add really, but liking the fact you threatened BE with moving to O2, kinda like threatening to leave Abbey National for Santander.