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Standard User GrampaSimpson
(newbie) Fri 05-May-17 17:44:53
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VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[link to this post]
 
Hi All

I'm on here from Ireland, and am a first timer here, so please excuse any unwitting netiquette bloopers.

I have a VDSL2 connection from my Technicolor MediaAccess TG588v v2 router to a local telecoms cab (approx 300 metres away). It is set at 90 down/20 up.

Since the service was installed in February, replacing an older ADSL service, it has been quite flaky in terms of responsiveness, requiring many router re- boots, DSL and PPP disconnects etc. In March, I came across the excellent thinkbroadband BQM (Thanks thinkBB, BTW) and have been monitoring my service ever since.

I'm getting massive packet loss at certain (random) times according to the BQM. I have independently verified the accuracy of the BQM charts by running pingtests directly from the router (to take any internal latency issues, such as WiFi) out of the equation.

I've had the router and its fly-lead to the wall-box replaced, and have also had a telecoms engineer out. My line has tested fine on his Megger appliance. At my request, he changed the wall- box and changed the port to which my service is connected at the cabinet. The net effect of all of this is that while all involved are being very helpful, there's been no improvement.

As the thinkbroadband website is undergoing an update, I cant link directly to my previous BQM graphs. However, here are a few to illustrate the situation:

1. A reasonably OK connection, which is fine (mostly) for TV streaming, poor on gaming and not great for Skype:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/S1Nj2mq.jpg[/img]

2. A reasonably OK connection that turned into a proper dog and required a disconnect/reconnect of the PPP connection:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/q5gksOl.jpg[/img]

3. A re- connection that started out a bit iffy, but got very bad for a while and then recovered itself a bit.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Yhvsm9q.jpg[/img]

4. A re- connection that started out badly and got worse:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/jIlZ2Xt.jpg[/img]

In 9 out of 10 cases, a simple disconnect and re- connect of the PPP connection get things back to 'usable' albeit with issues. in the 1 out of 10 cases where its still unusable even after the PPP re- connect, a router re- boot is needed.

Sorry for the long post. I'm wondering if any of the experts on here can deduce anything from this tale of woe that might help me in my ongoing discussions with the provider.

Thanks in advance.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 05-May-17 17:48:39
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Packet loss like this without a corresponding rise in average latency (green/blue/yellow) areas is odd, and may just be issues with the router dropping lots of the BQM packets.

What does a sequence of out bound pings look like? Especially to the first IP hop outside of your LAN.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User GrampaSimpson
(newbie) Fri 05-May-17 18:10:12
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Pings from inside out have been very much mirroring the BQM graphs.

For example, right this minute,
BQM is graphing in the range of 10-15% packet loss,

while immediately afterwards,

a ping test from my laptop is showing a Min/Max/Avg of 13/17/14 with 17 packets lost out of 104 packets sent (=16% loss).


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Standard User GrampaSimpson
(newbie) Fri 05-May-17 18:14:02
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Dump of ping from inside out:

[2017-5-5 18:07:44]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:43]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:41]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:41]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:07:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:07:29]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:29]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:07:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:07:18]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:07:13]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:11]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:10]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:08]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:07]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:05]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:07:05]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:06:59]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:58]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:56]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:55]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 17ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:53]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:52]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:50]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 13ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:48]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:48]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:06:43]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:41]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:40]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:38]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:37]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 13ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:06:29]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:28]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:26]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:25]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:06:18]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:06:12]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 16ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:11]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:09]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:08]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:06]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:05]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:03]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:02]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:06:00]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:59]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:57]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 13ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:56]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:54]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:53]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:51]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 16ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:50]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:48]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:47]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:45]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:44]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:42]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:42]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:05:36]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:33]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:32]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:30]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:28]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:28]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:05:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:21]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:21]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:05:15]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:14]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 16ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:12]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:11]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:09]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:08]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:06]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:05]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:03]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:05:03]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:04:58]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:04:52]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:52]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:04:47]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:45]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:44]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:42]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:41]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:39]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:38]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:36]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:35]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:33]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:33]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: Request timed out.
[2017-5-5 18:04:27]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:26]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:24]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:23]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:21]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:20]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:18]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 15ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:17]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 14ms TTL = 255
[2017-5-5 18:04:15]Reply from I.P. of 1st Hop: bytes = 64 time = 17ms TTL = 255
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 05-May-17 18:27:58
Print Post

Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Very odd would expect to see some variation instead of good and then packet loss.

Error correction over the VDSL2 segment should see TCP/ICMP/UDP packets delayed even if errors on the VDSL2 part of the line. This looks more like something just not bothering to route packets randomly - broken or bad hardware.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 05-May-17 18:52:34
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Are you pinging from the router GUI, or from a computer connecting to the net through it?

Edit: Just read your post before the long string of pings.

What ping command are you using, as normally the first hop from a computer is the router itself? What do you get from a simple command line ping bbc.co.uk ?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63086/13719Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 05-May-17 18:56:14)

Standard User GrampaSimpson
(newbie) Fri 05-May-17 20:28:19
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I performed that ping to answer Mr Saffron's specific question in real time. And yes it was to the 1st hop outside my router as per his request, using a Ping Tool running on my laptop.

I use all the following ping tools & combinations:

- through the router's GUI itself to the next hop, to 8.8.8.8, to BBC.CO.UK etc.
- through ping tools on iPad, Android phone, laptop as well as a ping -t from the Command prompt under windows XP and Windows 10. Everything returns more or less the same result, which is mirrored very well by the BQM over time.

Right now, a ping to bbc.co.uk is returning a 40% loss on 10 packets sent., with a 24/25/24 Min/Max/Avg.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 05-May-17 23:35:52
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Not happy!

What is this ping tool that produces that output that I have never seen before on the forums, and how do you specify what "Hop 1" is other than it being the router itself?

As I said, Hop 1 from your laptop is the router.

Given that in your list there you have done exactly what I requested, (a ping -t from the Command prompt under windows XP and Windows 10), why didn't you just repeat it and copy and paste the result.

Though thinking about it, better would be that plus (more importantly) a command prompt tracert bbc.co.uk

You came here for help, but won't do a requested test. ??

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63086/13719Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User GrampaSimpson
(newbie) Fri 05-May-17 23:55:46
Print Post

Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
A) I replaced the actual I.P. Address with the term "I.P. of 1st Hop" in Notepad to preserve privacy.
B) you asked that I would ping BBC. I did that and reported the result.

Frankly, your reply has confused me to say the least!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 06-May-17 00:33:36
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Re: VDSL2 link with massive packet loss


[re: GrampaSimpson] [link to this post]
 
Well your original posting of ping results was useless, with or without doctoring, for the reason I gave. Was the first hop 192.168.n.1 or 192.168.n.254? Where "n" is 0 or 1. Everyone else's defaults to that and few bother to change it. In particular, a ping to that is totally irrelevant to anything, except the norm is 1ms-3ms.

That's partly why I'm asking for more detail. A 14-16ms response from the router suggests an internal to your premises problem.

As I hinted in my second request, a tracert would be better than a ping.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63086/13719Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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