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Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 17:05:25
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Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[link to this post]
 
I'm hoping someone can help with this as it's becoming unbareable!

For about the last week now our internet connection has been almost unusable due to insanely high ping times 24/7 and dropping packets. See below for an example:

Pinging google.co.uk [173.194.37.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=2340ms TTL=52
Request timed out.
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=482ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 482ms, Maximum = 2340ms, Average = 1411ms


Here's the tracert results to the same address:

Tracing route to google.co.uk [173.194.37.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 87 ms 99 ms 99 ms api.home [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 3848 ms 1592 ms 43 ms 217.47.89.161
4 3701 ms 50 ms 3604 ms 213.1.69.134
5 * * 1359 ms 217.32.24.234
6 1351 ms 3297 ms 33 ms 217.32.24.46
7 170 ms 43 ms 1173 ms 217.32.24.182
8 127 ms 165 ms 153 ms acc2-10GigE-0-1-0-5.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1
59.249.210]
9 168 ms 31 ms 131 ms core1-te0-6-1-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.24
9.137]
10 177 ms 37 ms 128 ms core4te-0/1/0/0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
.254.54]
11 179 ms * * 195.99.125.78
12 * * 867 ms 209.85.252.76
13 * * 866 ms 209.85.251.58
14 * * 873 ms lhr14s02-in-f104.1e100.net [173.194.37.104]

Trace complete.


We're using the BT HomeHub 1.0 and these are the connection stats from the router:

DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 6 days, 8:12:39
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,616
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 539.58 / 4.73
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.0 / 6.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 106,404
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 308
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 281
Line Profile: Interleaved


The reason I believe we've got a stuck bRAS profile is because after performing numerous BTw line tests at the same times daily for the past few days, it reports our IP Profile as being at 4000 Kbps as you can see in the screenshot here.

Where as you can quite clearly see from the router stats above, it's synced at 7616 Kbps with no re-syncs or disconnections and what was a stable line with a 6.0 SNR, which should put us on IP Profile 6500 and we should be receiving speeds of up to 6.5Meg (This would be a dream, after having a stable 17Meg/1.3Meg on ADSL+ up in Coventry for the past 2 years!) but we're only receiving ~3.5Meg and that's if we're lucky, and those insanely high ping times which renders the internet frustratingly useless!

I've checked all of the filters and replaced them in the house to no avail. I've tried wired, wireless and the test socket. Nothing remedies it, which tells me it's not our end. But, I don't know what to do next which is why I'm here. If anyone could offer some advice, correct me if I'm wrong, or point me in the right direction I'd gratefully appreciate it because I don't want to be sent around the houses on the telephone all day.

Thank you in advance!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 18:00:37
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried switching the router off for 30 minutes?

This can clear the PPP session at the exchange and then the restart sometimes triggers profile updates. I don't know if it might also sort out the latency, but in your position I would certainly try it.

Also if I'm not mistaken the uptime your router is showing is its switched on time, not the current length of connection.

As the profile rise expected is under 50%, the time to wait can often exceed three days and sometimes take the full five frown, but from what you say you are past that period anyway.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 18:53:50
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi RobertoS, thanks for your reply.

You're correct that the uptime shown is the length of time the router has been switched on for, but it's pretty close to the length of time the router has been connected. Probably within ~60 seconds give or take.

Previous to the 6 days uptime shown in the stats I quoted, I had performed a BTw speedtest which stated our IP profile was at 4000, when it should have been at 6500 given the sync speed and other stats (The router had been up for weeks, without a single re-sync or dropped connection) This is what originally sparked my suspicions of a stuck profile.

After the speedtest, I did switch the router off for just over half an hour, hoping to trigger a profile update and clear the session at the exchange. The router re-synced at what is shown above, and the other stats, barring the errors have been the same for the full 6 days of uptime, with no change whatsoever in the IP profile (I've tested it daily) which still leads me to think it's stuck frown

I waited until today to allow for the full 5 days, and the ping strangely got worse, and worse over those 5/6 days. The download speed has remained ~3.5meg max and the upload also has remained at around a max of ~380kbps whilst the BTw speedtest has always indicated that our line is capable of over 7meg down, and the routers sync speed and SNR suggests the same.

Strangely we did have a problem with our phones a few days ago, whereby we had no dial tone for about 2 hours but they still rang when called, only you couldn't hear anyone from either end, but then it magically returned. At that time there was no apparent effect on the internet. Perhaps there was a line fault which has hung around?

I'm going to try once more to clear the session at the exchange, and leave it for 5 days. If no change to the profile after that, then I don't know. Probably a few very long frustratingly repetative calls to BT in an attempt to rectifiy it, but I can't see that going very well from previous experience. I guess I was hoping a BT staff member would see this and have a suggestion or answer. Here's hoping!

Edited by ClubLife (Fri 07-Jan-11 18:57:20)


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 19:03:00
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
Nasty frown.

As you've already done what I suggested I don't think doing it again will help.

If you have an NTE5 master socket then try a (preferably corded) phone into the test socket, on the wall at the back in this pic, and try the quiet line test. 17070 Option 2.

It should be silent.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Fri 07-Jan-11 21:37:23
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I decided to turn the router off, and on after 5 minutes to see if it remedied anything. Strangely after turning it back on, the ping speeds have dramatically improved, at least for the time being:
Pinging google.co.uk [173.194.37.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=52
Reply from 173.194.37.104: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 173.194.37.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 28ms, Maximum = 41ms, Average = 32ms

Tracert results:
Tracing route to google.co.uk [173.194.37.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 95 ms 99 ms 99 ms api.home [192.168.1.254]
2 26 ms 25 ms 26 ms 217.47.88.250
3 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 217.47.89.161
4 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms 213.1.69.134
5 36 ms 26 ms 27 ms 217.32.24.234
6 27 ms 27 ms 31 ms 217.32.24.62
7 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms 217.32.24.182
8 29 ms 28 ms 27 ms acc1-10GigE-0-7-0-5.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1
59.249.214]
9 67 ms 55 ms 36 ms core1-te0-13-0-6.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
49.153]
10 28 ms 28 ms 32 ms core4te-0-3-1-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [62.172.
102.25]
11 29 ms 44 ms 28 ms 195.99.125.82
12 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms 209.85.252.76
13 37 ms 28 ms 29 ms 209.85.251.58
14 29 ms 27 ms 27 ms lhr14s02-in-f104.1e100.net [173.194.37.104]

Trace complete.

All very strange. The router's synced at the same speed again aswell, and the SNR has raised slightly by .5 dB, but that doesn't suprise me and I expect that'll lower over the next 24 hours to 6 again.
DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 2:51:20
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 7,616
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 11.69 / 75.28
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 224
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
Line Profile: Interleaved

BTw speedtest shows we're still on IP profile 4000 though, hopefully this'll raise over the next 3-5 days, but at this point I'm not that hopeful. One thing I've always wondered is, if the router syncs at a speed which falls inside one IP profile from the beginning, shouldn't the exchange set you on that profile immediately? I thought that was how the line training worked, hence you would see an increase in sync speed gradually over the training period, and the IP profile would follow until the max stable speed is determined?

I'll definately perform the quiet line test tomorrow, thanks for that suggestion! Especially after that strange loss of dial tone. It'll give me a reason to pop into town tomorrow and pick up a corded handset.

Still, if the results of that are normal, I'll be stumped!

Edit: We just lost the dial tone on our phone again, which we only realised because someone was trying to call the landline, and then called a mobile to inform us they couldn't get through.

When attempting to report the fault on BT's website and performing their 'line test' it indicated they could detect no problem with the line, and suggested a faulty phone. So, without a corded handset I really can't confirm or deny this just yet. Strange how they still offered the option to call out an engineer. Surely if they've found no fault, there'd be no need? Hmm! The internet is still running smoothly though and ping times have infact hit an all time low of 32ms lol! Something is definately up with the line I'd say.

I'll report back tomorrow with my findings from the quiet line test from the test socket. I'm hoping there is a fault now, which will explain all of this!

Edited by ClubLife (Fri 07-Jan-11 22:24:53)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 07-Jan-11 22:26:46
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
I think that is very encouraging. You have shifted some sort of problem, so with luck the rest of the system will sort itself out as you say.

Just try the quiet line test with your existing phone, without disconnecting anything. It should be silent even with broadband connected. If it is there is no need to buy a corded phone for the purpose.

I suggest you leave things stable for (up to) 5 days to see if the profile does rise.

You are a victim of the myths about the initial training period, though you understand IP Profile to some extent. The line always sync's as fast as it can. The IP Profile does not affect sync, only the sync-time target noise margin does that.

Have a read of my page on the subject.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ClubLife
(newbie) Sat 08-Jan-11 14:23:11
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well I've just done a quiet line test using the test socket (Situated on the ground floor of a 3 storey town house) and the line was silent, no clicks or beeps, nothing.

Strangely, since lastnight we've had no dial tone on the house phones. We've got a base unit which is plugged into a phone socket on the first floor in the lounge, and two seperate handsets which don't require plugging in to a phone socket (One in the kitchen on the ground floor, and the other in the master bedroom on the first floor), just a mains plug for their chargers. None of them get a dial tone, and I'm assuming this is because they feed off of the signal from the base unit in the lounge. (These are all wireless handsets btw)

I just tried the corded handset in the two phone sockets upstairs (One in the lounge which the sky box was plugged into also, and the main base unit for the telephones) and the other in the master bedroom. Neither of them have a dial tone which explains why there's no dial tone on any of the wireless handsets, but there is a dial tone on the master socket downstairs?

This would lead me to believe, either the wiring between the master socket and the slave sockets is damaged, or a fuse has gone in both of the slave sockets? (I don't know if there is such a thing?)

What confuses me is all of the handsets were working yesterday morning, but stopped working lastnight when I reported on here. This would lead me to believe something happened to the wiring/sockets on the first floor lastnight. But, as I mentioned in my previous post, we lost the dialtone on all of the wireless handsets just over a week ago too, but they then started working a few hours later with no problems, apart from the obvious ping increase on the broadband. But now the ping has returned to normal on the broadband, infact it's even better than before at an average of ~27ms, there is a dial tone on the master socket, but no dial tone on either of the slave sockets for 10+ hours.

When I try to report a fault on BT's website, and click the button to 'perform the test' it says there is no fault on the line, and that it is possibly an internal problem. But it still offers the option to call out an engineer.

So, I guess my questions are, do I need an engineer, or can I just replace the faceplates on the slave sockets upstairs? How do I determine if it's a fuse that's gone in them? Or if it's the wiring from the master to the slaves? Also, would a problem with the wiring/fuse cause the problems we've been experiencing with the broadband? I'm assuming any type of problem with the phoneline past the master socket would cause some sort of interference with the broadband, but I have no expertise in this area unfortunately frown If I call out a BT engineer, I'm guessing we'd be charged due to it being the internal wiring, past the master socket?

Any advice from people with such knowledge would be gratefully appreciated before I start forking out for callout charges etc. And thank you for your help so far RobertoS! Your website is full of extremely interesting info (Atleast to me tongue)

Edited by ClubLife (Sat 08-Jan-11 14:28:01)

Standard User ggremlin
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 16:06:55
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
This would lead me to believe, either the wiring between the master socket and the slave sockets is damaged,

this is most likely, and the first place to look is the back of the master faceplate, where extentions should be connected.
bt will charge since it works at the test socket.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 08-Jan-11 16:20:04
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: ClubLife] [link to this post]
 
As ggremlin says. First check the connections on the back of the master faceplate. You need T2 and T5 connected, others are best disconnected, but not touching any other terminal and not tucked behind the test socket where the incoming line is connected.

Note (and later post) the wire colours on T2 and T5. Then check the same colours are on T2 and T5 at the extensions. Make sure they don't swap over! So if Blue with white stripe is on master T2 then it should go to T2 at the extension, and the same with whatever is on T5 >> extension T5. Not T2 >> T5.

It does sound like a wire disconnected.

If you find one that is, the proper tool (called a Krone tool or IDC connection tool) to insert it costs a quid or so from DIY stores. The edge of a credit card may work but isn't recommended. You don't strip insulation, you push an insulated wire between the terminal jaws so it cuts through the insulation.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sat 08-Jan-11 18:23:10
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Re: Insanely High Ping & Suspected Stuck bRAS Profile


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
where are you?

do you know if you are fed overhead or underground?

is it a new or old house?

do you have a nte5 and if so do you get dial tone at that but not anywhere else?

if you can answer these ill assist further.

ta

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
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