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Standard User dorsetlad
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 08:49:13
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Email Options?


[link to this post]
 
I have just signed up to BT, although my line does not get activated until next Tuesday. Have been reading various broadband help topics to try and suss out the differences which using BT will cause, I'm getting rather confused about email. I currently use Mozilla Thunderbird as my email client, and have a standard Yahoo email address. BT broadband uses a @btinternet.com address, that is also provided by Yahoo. I would like to continue using Thunderbird for all my email for the time being, and may not even adopt my @btinternet email address, as it means notifying all my contacts of the change. However, reading here http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1070/... it states

"If you have a broadband connection you will only be able to send email when using your BT Yahoo! Mail account settings."

Does this mean that I will no longer be able to use Thunderbird, and if not, how do I transfer Address book etc from there to the BTYahoo account.

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User kp52
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 09:14:22
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
There's no problem using Thunderbird with BT mail - it's the settings that have to match the BT service, not the email program.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-May-11 09:17:17
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
You can certainly continue to use Thunderbird, that is just an email client. However, the rest of your post implies you are using webmail, rather than POP3/IMAP and SMTP. That confuses me, as the whole point of Thunderbird is that you don't use webmail for the bulk of your emailing, and your Address book would be on your computer.

Do the emails get downloaded to your computer? Is your current Yahoo email address set up in Tools >> Acccount Settings in Thunderbird with POP3/IMAP and SMTP?

Unfortunately the link you give to the BT help doesn't work for me, so I can't read the rest of it to see if that tells me more about the problem.

It is probable that BT mean they are blocking port 25 for other SMTP (email send) services than their own.
If this is the case there are two solutions.

The better of the two may not be provided by Yahoo, but most decent email hosts have their SMTP server listening on more than one port. You should be able to find if Yahoo do this through their Help or FAQ systems. Look for Port 25 blocking and SMTP setup, that sort of thing.

If they do an alternative port then BT may not be blocking that. The BT Help should be telling you exactly what ports are blocked, perhaps in that link that doesn't work for me. You set the alternative port in Thunderbird >> Tools >> Account settings >> Bottom of left-hand menu "Outgoing server (SMTP)".

The other way is to use the BT SMTP server for sending, as they say you must, which you set in Thunderbird at the same place as the alternative port, but you simply make sure in the main "Account Settings" page in Thunderbird you have your Email Address and Reply-to Address set to your existing Yahoo address, leaving the POP3/IMAP settings unchanged.

Does that help, or have I misunderstood?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-May-11 09:21:03)


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Standard User dorsetlad
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 09:19:24
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
KP, can you expand on that please? How do I go about it? An idiot's guide would be useful, as I'm not that bright.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User dorsetlad
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 10:01:38
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi Roberto

From your comments, it seems that I have made my own life more complicated than it need be by using Thunderbird for all my email. I guess it's a legacy thing, having used it before webmail was as popular as it is now, and before I had a Yahoo address myself. Yes my Yahoo emails get downloaded onto my laptop, with POP settings.

Probably the easiet thing to do when my line is activated will be to use the BTYahoo set up from day 1, and just keep Thunderbird as an archive of all my previous messages etc. Unless of course there is a way of importing them and my address book into BTYahoo.

Thank you both for your thoughts on the matter.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-May-11 11:42:13
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
I'm not sure what you are saying there. I think you are still confused, as in fact it's quite simple "once you know how", as things often are.

It still isn't clear to me whether you purely use Thunderbird, or whether you occasionally also use the Webmail side of Yahoo.

If you don't use webmail, then one of us can easily guide you through the changes you need to make to use your current Yahoo through BT.

Ignore what I said about port numbers! That is for purists. The second option I give is 99% as good and works perfectly. The only difference is that if readers of your emails inspect the headers of what you send, the second way they can see it comes from a BT account, the first way they can't.

To nearly everybody that is a totally non-important factor.

How many email addresses/mailboxes do you use?

Or if you want to switch to webmail only, then you should be able to do that on your existing yahoo account and ignore the BT Yahoo one. Their block doesn't apply to webmail.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-May-11 11:43:30)

Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 04-May-11 11:49:57
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
Just add an additional account in Thunderbird to access your new Yahoo account and download the messages to your PC.

An email client is not restricted to just one email account but can have many accounts accessible from each instance (user) of the client.. I have about twenty or thirty email accounts used for specific things. I have three instances of my email client available to me - I launch one of those every morning which checks my 4 primary email addresses and runs all day. Once a day or every few days, I may launch one of the other instances, that then accesses around 20 different low usage email accounts.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User dorsetlad
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 12:07:04
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It seems my confusion is confusing you Roberto lol

In fact I solely use Thunderbird for email, very, very rarely looking at the webmail side.

Currently I only have 4 email accounts, 1 Yahoo & 1 Gmail for myself, 1 Yahoo account for my wife, and 1 non webmail account from my current ISP, which will cease when I move to BT.
The ISP non Webmail address I NEVER use, my Gmail & my wife's Yahoo accounts are rarely used.

Therefore from what you all seem to be saying is that it is possible to continue using Thunderbird with a few tweaks. However, I think that it is now all clarified in my mind, that when I get activated, I will probably drop Thunderbird and use the BTYahoo system. If I set the BTYahoo site as my home page, then my internet access and email are all in the same place. It also makes checking email easier when I'm away on holiday if I need to.

Thanks all for your input, I think I know where I'm going now

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 12:36:32
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dorsetlad:
However, reading here http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1070/... , it states
That link doesn't compute, as you ran the comma into it. Have corrected in above.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-May-11 12:46:27
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
smile
Fine, though personally I loath Webmail for day-to-day use. I find it cumbersome.

However, you still land yourself with the need to notify everyone of the new address. Surely it would be simpler just to drop Thunderbird and use those existing accounts all through Webmail? Ignore the new BT Yahoo one?

I don't know about your gmail and yahoo setups, but I would expect you could export your address book from Thunderbird in a form they could import, saving you having to re-input them all. In Thunderbird, go into Address Book >> Export, and at the bottom choosing file type CSV is probably the best. Have a look in yahoo and gmail on webmail first and see if they can import CSV files. Having said that, TAB delimited may be safer.

Have a look at see what is available, common to all.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User dorsetlad
(newbie) Wed 04-May-11 13:04:24
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You're right Roberto. I have just carried out an experiment. I saved my Thunderbird address book as a csv file, then logged into my Yahoo webmail account and asked it to import the csv file. It located it and displayed all the email addresses ready for import. (you had to select the addresses you wanted to import, in case there are some redundant ones). It then says it will send an email to each contact to inform them of the change of address to Yahoo. Obviously I didn't complete the action, because all these contacts know me as a Yahoo client anyway. But no doubt I could perform the same operation with the BTYahoo account. I think that is the way I will probably go.

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 13:10:33
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
Thunderbird (TB) is just a mail client on your PC for reading (via POP3 or IMAP) and sending (via SMTP) emails from any email a/c's. You can use any mail client to do this. You have been using TB exclusively to access all your a/c's. You have not complicated things by using it. You may continue to do this.

You can continue reading your existing Yahoo a/c without any change,

However to continue sending from your existing Yahoo a/c you need to change its Outgoing SMTP Server to port 587 with authentication (see http://help.yahoo.com/l/uk/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/pop/... ) because that BT link effectively says they are blocking the normal SMTP port 25 of other providers ("you will only be able to send email when using your BT Yahoo! Mail account settings").

If you like you may add the BT Yahoo! Mail account to your TB set of accounts as a further a/c, completely separate from your existing Yahoo a/c.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 13:19:03
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
I think you are going off on a tangent by considering dropping TB and starting to use the BTYahoo account by webmail.

I think you are still confused by not understanding that TB accesses exactly the same Yahoo a/c's as does Yahoo webmail.

You can continue to to use what you have always used.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Wed 04-May-11 14:54:53
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
OK, I give up.

I had convinced myself that the easiest option would be to adopt the BTYahoo option when I go live. I must admit though that I do like Thunderbird, and would be loath to give it up.

So if anyone can give me step by step instructions on what I need to do to make TB work with BT, I would be only too happy to give it a try.

There is a guide on the BT Help site, but I guess it was written a long time ago, as I run the latest version of TB, and some of the screen shots and instructions in the guide, bear no resemblance to what I actually see on screen when I try it.

Over to you.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 04-May-11 14:58:33
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
You need to add the new email account and change the outgoing port settings. As I don't have TB loaded here I cannot easily assist but someone will have TB installed and can take you step-by-step.

I'm sure others here will stand back and let just one person take you through it ...





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 16:50:20
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
You don't seem to realise that TB and the BTYahoo option are 2 completely independent things. You can utilise either, both or none as you wish.

The BTYahoo option is just another email a/c, that BT are offering you, that may be accessed many ways, including via TB or Webmail. You don't have to use it.

All you need do is change the Outgoing SMTP Server to port 587 Authenticated in TB on your existing account, to stay as you were.

There seems absolutely no advantage in taking up the BTYahoo a/c when you already have a Yahoo a/c, esp. as you would need to inform everyone of your new email address.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 04-May-11 17:08:57
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
The OP will need to use the new account - or at least monitor it as it will be the one BT uses to send out reminders and information.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Wed 04-May-11 17:13:23
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks XrayspeX. I am perfectly aware that TB is a completely different & independant thing to BTYahoo, and that I can use either or both, as has been pointed out by others. The whole point of my question was to try to decide which path to take

Perhaps you could explain where you get port 587 from, as the BT help guide states port 25. Or is that now incorrect due to the guide being old, as I stated previously.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Wed 04-May-11 17:18:43
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Re: Email Options?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Good point MHC. Even if I don't use the email address for general use. But if I set up a new BTYahoo account in Thunderbird, any mail from them will be downloaded with my normal Yahoo mail. And as XrayspeX says, I will not need to inform all my contacts about the change of address.

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 17:39:59
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Re: Email Options?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Ah, OK!

He could jut use it solely for that and still use his existing a/c for his friends.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 17:45:02
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
In the link I gave you in this post http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/3999866-re-ema...
Outgoing Mail (SMTP) Server: smtp.mail.yahoo.co.uk (use authentication, optionally use port 587)
gets round the ISP blocking port 25 of other providers as is customary.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-May-11 17:49:23
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dorsetlad:
But if I set up a new BTYahoo account in Thunderbird, any mail from them will be downloaded with my normal Yahoo mail.
You should be able to segregate them using Filters or Message Rules provided by most clients. But is it worth the bother? You shouldn't get too many communications from BT.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-May-11 23:01:01
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Re: Email Options?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
The OP will need to use the new account - or at least monitor it as it will be the one BT uses to send out reminders and information.
????
Is that an absolute?

Surely they should use whatever email address you tell them to use? As far as I know every other ISP does, even if it defaults to themselves and you have to change it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 04-May-11 23:08:33
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dorsetlad:
Good point MHC. Even if I don't use the email address for general use. But if I set up a new BTYahoo account in Thunderbird, any mail from them will be downloaded with my normal Yahoo mail. And as XrayspeX says, I will not need to inform all my contacts about the change of address.
You're getting there, slowly smile.

Assuming MHC is right that you have to read the BT Yahoo emails to check for important stuff from them, (I've queried this with him as that sounds very unusual, but he is rarely wrong), as long as you don't tell that address to anyone else then all will be unchanged from now, except for adding a new account in Thunderbird.

Your existing Yahoo (and gmail) account(s) in Thunderbird would just run as now except you have to go into the SMTP server setting I described earlier and edit the port to 587.

That I assume is correct for Yahoo, as he gave it. I expect it will also be correct for gmail, but you need to check that out.

Earlier, you seemed to have decided webmail for the lot was the way you wanted to go. As I said, I would find that very cumbersome.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Thu 05-May-11 01:35:17
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That I assume is correct for Yahoo, as he (you mean me?) gave it. I expect it will also be correct for gmail, but you need to check that out.
You shouldn't expect that! GMail's SMTP Server is on port 465 and its POP3 Server is on port 995. Both of them require a Secure Connection (SSL).

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 05-May-11 08:47:36
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Almost certain - I have BT Business accounts and the primary address is xxxx_xxxx but have another xxxx.xxxx I always use the dot account rather than underscore. However, when I speak with BT they ask to check the email details and I give the dot details, but their systems have defaulted back to underscore. Any changes do not seem to be permanent on the account - they may be in the various notes and work for the specific query but on the next call it has reverted.

In one set of Ts & Cs, I can remember reading a statement with words similar to: "BT will contact you through the primary email address supplied with the service".

With the various changes that happen, it is important to monitor the primary address, even if BT have been asked to use an alternate and it will not take much to add it to the TB set up.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 05-May-11 08:51:04
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Earlier, you seemed to have decided webmail for the lot was the way you wanted to go. As I said, I would find that very cumbersome.


If the OP leaves his PC running when away from home - at work or on holiday for example, then using "the leave messages on server for a specified period" (2 days for work, longer for holiday) can be useful.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Thu 05-May-11 10:59:56
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Re: Email Options?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thanks guys for all the input. Whatever way I decide to go, there is nothing I can do until I actually go live. There is therefore plenty of time for me to change my mind several times before the day.

What a great source of information this site is.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User foxycat
(regular) Thu 05-May-11 20:01:04
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I can't speak of Thunderbird, but I have had BT Infinity for several weeks now and Outlook has no problem sending email from my non-BT accounts using Port 25 for the outgoing SMTP server.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Thu 05-May-11 20:12:09
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Re: Email Options?


[re: foxycat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I was speaking generally. All mail clients have much the same capability.

The outgoing SMTP server is that of your non-BT provider, not BT's? Do you have to authenticate it with your BT Yahoo! Mail account credentials?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User foxycat
(regular) Thu 05-May-11 20:22:25
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, it's the SMTP server of the hosting service I use for my website and domain email accounts. I haven't changed anything since joining BT, apart from adding the BT email account. It just works.
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Thu 05-May-11 21:46:12
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Re: Email Options?


[re: foxycat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, the BT Help article here - http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/14918... tells you to set the port at 25.

"Add a description if you want to, making sure that the port is set to 25."

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Thu 05-May-11 23:23:27
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dorsetlad:
Yes, the BT Help article here - http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/14918... tells you to set the port at 25.
That article is not relevant! It is for setting up for "your BT Internet email address (user@btimtrnet.com)", not some other provider's email addys, as the OP requires.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-11 13:14:09
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Re: Email Options?


[re: dorsetlad] [link to this post]
 
More pertinent is this article: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6999/... but it does imply that you can use your other provider's SMTP unchanged as long as you Authenticate with your BT Yahoo! Mail account username and password,

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User foxycat
(regular) Fri 06-May-11 16:10:06
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
More pertinent is this article: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6999/... but it does imply that you can use your other provider's SMTP unchanged as long as you Authenticate with your BT Yahoo! Mail account username and password,

I read that and it does seem to imply what you say - but I don't see how it could work unless you are using BT's SMTP server to send email on your other accounts.

How can a third party SMTP server (as named in the "Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) box) authenticate using BT logon details?

Mine are all set to "use same settings as my incoming mail server" (i.e. the logon applicable to the email account in question) and they work.
Standard User Jaggies
(committed) Fri 06-May-11 16:14:08
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Re: Email Options?


[re: foxycat] [link to this post]
 
You can use mail.btinternet.com as your SMTP server for all your email addresses, providing you verify the addresses first.

See http://www.btyahoo.com/verify

~~~~~
Brian
From September 2001 on BTopenworld Home 500/Home 1000/Home 2000. Then ADSLMax on <n>ildram. Moved to ADSL2+ from ADSL24. I'm now with plusnet. I'm not saying who I work for. Any opinions expressed here are my own.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-11 17:16:03
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Re: Email Options?


[re: foxycat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by foxycat:
How can a third party SMTP server (as named in the "Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) box) authenticate using BT logon details?
Yes, I agree, it does seem impossible but I thought I'd post that link as it appears appropriate to this topic and claims that's the way to do it.

I did wonder whether the BT network intercedes 1st to check its own credentials and strips them out before the SMTP request is sent out into the outside Internet, but I doubt it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 06-May-11 17:44:52
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I've just read through the BTYahoo link. It isn't quite what it seems, in three ways frown.

First, it isn't "Authentication" as we understand it. In particular, the normal email client authentication setup seems not to be affected. It is a BTYahoo "verification" routine.

Second, the whole thing seems purely to address webmail. It may or may not apply to emails sent from an email client. Unless, reading rapidly, I missed something to do with that.

Third,
You will now be able to send or receive email from the newly verified email account; you'll see the option to choose which email address to send emails from when you compose a new email.
When you check for new emails, all email accounts that have been verified will be checked and the emails delivered to your BT Yahoo! Mail account.
Typical BT Yahoo complication which many years ago was the reason I determined when getting broadband and email at home never to go anywhere near the BT Broadband service. I shall never forget the hidden takeovers in seemingly innocent "Click here to improve your BT Broadband experience" type banners, and finding Yahoo and its garbage, (in those days that was emphatically what it was), had been installed completely screwing up both my email and Explorer Home Page setups, plus adding infuriating irrelevant-to-my-needs toolbars.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-11 20:05:47
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I've just read through the BTYahoo link. It isn't quite what it seems, in three ways frown.
I can't agree with any of your 3 ways. Perhaps there is evidence you have confused 2 links frown

Ist: Authentication vs. verification = pure semantics! It is an instruction to
Place a tick in the standard "My server requires authentication" box
of an email client. It may very well be that the BT network itself is interceding as I suggest in my previous post.

2nd: How can it be addressing Webmail when all it is dealing with is email clients and Outgoing SMTP Servers? I recollect you illustrated a similar confusion between Webmail when talking about email servers and port 25 SMTP in an earlier PM.

3rd: I don't know where you got that quote:
You will now be able to send or receive email from ...
but there's nothing wrong with it; it describes the normal operation of any email client. That quote isn't in my linked article or any others linked here.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 06-May-11 20:11:51)

Standard User foxycat
(regular) Fri 06-May-11 20:19:43
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I did wonder whether the BT network intercedes 1st to check its own credentials and strips them out before the SMTP request is sent out into the outside Internet, but I doubt it.

It would need to have a way to get the correct credentials to pass to the third party SMTP server, which requires authentication....
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-11 22:41:43
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Re: Email Options?


[re: foxycat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you're right! Confirms my doubts had strong basis.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 06-May-11 23:24:13
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, I've accidentally created confusion there.

By the "BTYahoo link" I meant the one that stands out as such in this post.

My comments about that are valid.

I regret I hadn't looked at the link you gave earlier, as I assumed this one superceded it. Simply because it was posted later and looked so obvious.

The two procedures look similar enough for me to guess that something odd and undesirable is going on even with the client setup method you link to. Specifically the quote at the end about incoming mail from the third-party server coming in through the BTYahoo account. To me that implies that POP3 requests on the BT connection may also be doctored to collect mail from the third-party POP3 server and deliver to the BTYahoo Inbox.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sat 07-May-11 00:37:21
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ah, I see! smile. But you replied to me and I was in the midst of discussing the link Can I still use an existing non-BT Yahoo! email account when I connect via BT Yahoo!? about SMTP Settings.

However, I read it that the link that you wot of is also addressing the issue of sending from "foreign" addys in email clients via SMTP, but instructing you to 1st verify them on BT Yahoo Webmail. Hence the refs to Error 553 and the footnotes about Outlook 2003. and from the fact that you don't get a list of "which email address to send from" in Webmail (just found they do)

You can't assume one referenced link supersedes another just cuz one post is later. They are both BT Yahoo links and are seemingly contradictory. In fact they only both make sense if the non-BT Yahoo a/c is set up in the email client with their Outgoing SMTP Server = BT's own port 25 one. Which was one of the alternatives you suggested at first. That still doesn't preclude the other alternative of using a non-BT Yahoo non-port 25 SMTP Server. smile

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 07-May-11 05:39:49)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sat 07-May-11 05:54:27
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Specifically the quote at the end about incoming mail from the third-party server coming in through the BTYahoo account. To me that implies that POP3 requests on the BT connection may also be doctored to collect mail from the third-party POP3 server and deliver to the BTYahoo Inbox.
Many Webmails offer the facility of amgamating other, POP3'able. a/c's to themselves. And we know that most of those Webmails can be accessed by POP3 from your email client. So it's not surprising that BT also provides this feature.

Just had a look at Hotmail; it's logically equivalent to the BT method described in the BT link that you wot of.

On the Sending side Hotmail shows the From: as "me@hotmail.com on behalf of name@otherprovider.com". I wonder if BT gives the game away similarly?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-May-11 09:54:40
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Specifically the quote at the end about incoming mail from the third-party server coming in through the BTYahoo account. To me that implies that POP3 requests on the BT connection may also be doctored to collect mail from the third-party POP3 server and deliver to the BTYahoo Inbox.
Many Webmails offer the facility of amgamating other, POP3'able. a/c's to themselves. And we know that most of those Webmails can be accessed by POP3 from your email client. So it's not surprising that BT also provides this feature.

Just had a look at Hotmail; it's logically equivalent to the BT method described in the BT link that you wot of.

On the Sending side Hotmail shows the From: as "me@hotmail.com on behalf of name@otherprovider.com". I wonder if BT gives the game away similarly?
Now that last paragraph eliminates the third-partyy SMTP authentication problem that has been puzzled over.

Assuming this BTYahoo method is doing the same as that hotmail system, then the BT SMTP server is what is actually sending the emails, the third-party SMTP server being ignored - just referenced wherever you found that. In the header perhaps?

So unless BT block several ports, in the way Tiscali used to (or was it Orange?), the simplest solution is to use an alternative port, and the next simplest just to accept using the BT Yahoo SMTP server and ensure the General tab email and return addresses are set to the third-party ones. As I described earlier.

What do you reckon?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Sun 08-May-11 02:19:01
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Assuming this BTYahoo method is doing the same as that hotmail system, then the BT SMTP server is what is actually sending the emails, the third-party SMTP server being ignored - just referenced wherever you found that. In the header perhaps?
Not ignored but not used. This is case of other ac usimg BTs own port25 SMTP.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 08-May-11 08:57:38
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Assuming this BTYahoo method is doing the same as that hotmail system, then the BT SMTP server is what is actually sending the emails, the third-party SMTP server being ignored - just referenced wherever you found that. In the header perhaps?
Not ignored but not used. This is case of other ac usimg BTs own port25 SMTP.
Dodgy semantic interpretation there.

If I had said "Ignored for all ongoing transmission purposes" you would have had less opening for quibbling, but that phrasing would have been unnecessarily tortuous and pretentious.

Your alternative of "not used" has exactly the same miniscule fault. It is used to construct the reference in the header.

It is quite clear what was meant, as long as one doesn't ignore, as you seemed to do, the qualifying phrase "just referenced ...".

tongue

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Mon 09-May-11 00:31:24
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Re: Email Options?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Sorry will address proper on return. Kindle not ideal for quibblig grin

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU BB => 2010: Orange 19 Meg Tweaked / 16 Meg Untweaked LLU BB
Standard User dorsetlad
(learned) Tue 10-May-11 12:39:29
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Re: Email Options?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
How interesting!!!!!! I started this topic 5 pages ago, being quite worried whether I would be able to use Thunderbird to pick up non BT emails once my line was activated. I got totally confused with much of what was being said, so imagine my surprise when my line was activated about 30 minutes ago. (Incidentally, the BT Home Hub has not yet been delivered, due before 6.00pm, so I reconfigured my Netgear.) Once I was live I fired up Thunderird, & lo & behold it works without me having to do any tweaks. Who's a happy bunny then? Thanks guys for all the input.

Brian

It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice
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