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Standard User mamvcivm
(newbie) Fri 08-Jul-11 21:00:42
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BTInfinity infrastructure


[link to this post]
 
Hello, I've been nagged by BT constantly over the last 6-12 months, trying to persuade me to move over to Infinity from the bog standard Option 1 package. My house is about 2.6 miles from the exchange (straight line). Our speed has always been slow - about 2M at the most. In recent weeks the connection has been unreliable and at one point they had to clear a fault on the line (remotely). Could someone please tell me; does infinity use the same basic infrastructure or is it entirely separate from the current connection. I'm asking cos I'm loathe to "upgrade" to infinity if it proves as unreliable as the current set up has become...

Thanks,

Andrew

Andy L
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Fri 08-Jul-11 21:38:43
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: mamvcivm] [link to this post]
 
Infinity is FTTC so instead of it been distance from the exchange is distance from the cabinet that determines your speed although i personal don't like BT many people on here have said BT infinity has been a hell of a lot better than there old ADSL services (faster speeds, better ping's and more usage)

Hope this helps Ash

-------------------------------------------------------------
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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-11 22:31:46
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: mamvcivm] [link to this post]
 
Between you and the exchange there is a cabinet, where lots of lines to houses get concentrated onto a bulk cable to the exchange.

Your problem could be between you and the cabinet, so FTTC would not help, or in could be in a tatty old cable between the cabinet and the exchange, like mine was.

So for me, going to FTTC jumped me from 5Mbps to 35Mbps and got rid of my problem. For you, it depends where the problem is.

To find out more about how FTTC works, have a read of the FTTC page on my website.

If you tell us what the problem was that was fixed remotely, and what ongoing trouble you are having, one of us might be able to help solve that. We will probably have to ask for more details, but lets start with what you can tell us about it already.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.


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Standard User dspillett
(committed) Sat 09-Jul-11 12:04:31
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: mamvcivm] [link to this post]
 
In the vast majority of cases FTTC will be a significant improvement where available. If you are a "special case" (if you have an unusually long line distance between your home and the cabinet for instance, or if they line is faulty in some way) then FTTC will not help as those problems exist beyond the cabinet.

I've gone from ~12m/1.6m sync rates to ~36m/10m in my recent upgrade from ADSL2+/AnnexM (though obviously my starting point was much better than your current situation).

Your cabinet will be much closer to you than the exchange, so the length of copper wire involved will be similarly shorter (though note that the paths taken from exchange->cab and cab->premises will rarely be a straight line and are sometimes quite tortuous due to local geography. If you can find that it might give you a "feel" for how much difference it might might make. If you can't spot your cabinet by simple visual inspection (it might just be at the end of the street), there was a list of mappings between postcodes and cabs on here that might help (find the cab listed for your postcode and run all the postcodes also served by that cab through BT's checker - the cab will be within 300M of any area the checked says might get the full 40d/10u.

Though the best thing you might be able to do without knowing more details of that specific fault you mentioned, is throw your phone number and/or postcode into BT's checker at http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome and see what it comes out with. This isn't going to be entirely accurate, but should be a good indicator. Some report it overestimating, but for me it underestimates both the ADSL2+/AnnexM and FTTC sync rates I get (listing 9d/1u and 32d/7.8u respectively, where I had a nice stable 12d/1.6u before upgrade and got 36d/10u (according to the BT/or engineer's reading) on initial FTTC install). If the results are way off for you for ADSL they may not be accurate for FTTC either. Remember when checking speedtests that the rate seen by any tester on your PC will be lower than the pure sync rate achieved by the modem due to transport layer overheads and most checkers will not adjust for that. The difference between physical line speed and observed throughput is about 20% in my experience.

Check what other ISPs are offering wrt FTTC service if you are considering it. Most have a 12 month minimum contract rather than BT's 18 month one and may have other advantages depending on your needs. You'll probably end up paying more, but you might get extra bandwidth allowance for the extra which will be useful if a burst in speed will make you a heavier user than you are now. BT might be the best option for you, but do look around and have a think rather than just going with BT just by default.

--------------------------------------------------------
Be* Pro, with UploadPlus, current sync: 11,351 down, 1,615 up
Previous ISP: Entanet, via Vivaciti, with sync rates generally at 7,616 down and 832 up [left due to a range of technical (poor speeds+latency, zero network resilience) and customer service issues (bad communication and such)]
Standard User mamvcivm
(newbie) Sun 10-Jul-11 16:46:38
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: dspillett] [link to this post]
 
Hi, thanks for the replies.

The problems encountered: basically very unreliable connection, ie reconnected itself every few days - sometimes a few times within an hour. At one point, a few weeks ago it simply would not reconnect. The Homehub sat there with the Broadband light flashing and the Internet lamp off. I reported it to BT and they said they'd identified a fault on the line and that it would be fixed over the next few days. Sure enough after a few days the connection became more reliable again. However, it's becoming unreliable once more. Strangely, when it does connect, it seems the upload speed is suffering more than download: my current figures are U288/D1856. I normally get an upload of better than 400kb.

Unfortunately, I can't be more specific about the fault BT found.

Results from the BT Checker: Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 30.2Mbps and upstream line speed of 6.8Mbps.


I'm still a bit confused about the infrastructure for FTTC - the telegraph pole supporting the telephone line to my house is literally at bottom of my driveway (about 15 ft to the house). Does the new link come in on that wire, or another wire from the cabinet?

Thanks

Andy L
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 10-Jul-11 19:31:01
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: mamvcivm] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mamvcivm:
I'm still a bit confused about the infrastructure for FTTC - the telegraph pole supporting the telephone line to my house is literally at bottom of my driveway (about 15 ft to the house). Does the new link come in on that wire, or another wire from the cabinet?
Sounds like I need to clarify my description on the page on my website I gave you the link to.

The line from the exchange to you at the moment goes through a cabinet on the way to your pole. The new fibre cabinet is near to that cabinet and the two are connected. If you sign up to FTTC everything between you and the cabinet comes over the existing infrastructure, ie the existing connection from the cabinet to the pole and to you. The split is at that cabinet, where the phone side continues along the existing copper to the exchange, and the broadband side shoots off into the FTTC cabinet and onto the fibre to the exchange.

Re the fault itself, a bit tricky. The upstream 288 could easily be some sort of fixed speed profile (are you used to 448?), but the 1856 downstream looks like variable, which would be unlikely if the upstream were fixed. Unfortunately there's no clue there anyway to where the problem lies, so at the moment I don't know what to advise, sorry.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User dspillett
(committed) Sun 10-Jul-11 19:54:14
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: mamvcivm] [link to this post]
 
I'm still a bit confused about the infrastructure for FTTC - the telegraph pole supporting the telephone line to my house is literally at bottom of my driveway (about 15 ft to the house). Does the new link come in on that wire, or another wire from the cabinet?


No, that part stays copper. By my understanding the way things are is as follows:

Pre FTTC you have:
.          |||
           |||
           |||
BT's (or LLU operator's) Backhaul
           |||
           ||| Big fat chunky fibre bundles
           |||
         Exchange
            |
            |  Copper, could be long distance
            |
           Cab
            |
            |  Copper, usually much shorter distance
            |
           Home


With FTTC what you have is:
.          |||
           |||
           |||
BT's (or LLU operator's) Backhaul
           |||
           ||| Big fat chunky fibre bundles
           |||
         Exchange
            ||
            || Fiber
            ||
         New Cab (installed near the old cab)
            |
            |  Copper I think, very short distance usually
            |
         Old Cab
            |
            |  Copper
            |
           Home


The last bit is still using the same copper wire from the old cab to your home - the part that is upgraded is the leg between the exchange and the cabinet.

The line from the cab to your home (the bit that will remain copper with FTTC) is much more than just the bit from the premises to the pole. It runs underground (almost always not in a straight line) to the cabinet. The line length distance from your home to the cab that serves your area is more than 300M (as below 300M you are likely to get the full 40M/10M estimate) but not an awful lot more (going by the estimate you get). The signals do not attenuate on their way down the fibre as they do when travelling through copper (and they are not sensitive to external interference either) so the fibre bit has little effect on your signal quality (and therefore useful speed). Plucking some figures from the air for illustration purposes, you would probably going from something like 3.5km of copper (3.0 from exchange to cab, 0.5 to your home) to just 0.5km of copper, hence the much greater speed estimate.

The cabinets serving my street are a couple of short streets away. You'll know them when you see them (usually two green boxes next to each other, one is the old copper-to-copper cab and the other contains the new fibre-to-copper equipment).

--------------------------------------------------------
Current ISP: Andrews & Arnold (AAISP, aa.net.uk) via FTTC at ~36Mbit down & ~10Mbit up, joined July 2011.
Previous setup: Be Pro with UploadPlus (ADSL2+, AnnexM), 12ish Mbit down, 1.6 up, happy customer for ~2.5 years.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 10-Jul-11 21:09:05
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: dspillett] [link to this post]
 
Your diagrams are close, but slightly incorrect in that the FTTC one doesn't show what happens to the phone line. That stays connected from the old cabinet to the exchange and does not go up the fibre leg.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User dspillett
(committed) Sun 10-Jul-11 22:58:14
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Re: BTInfinity infrastructure


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I always forget about the basic phone function... I don't think I've used my fixed line for anything other than Internet access for a good few years!

--------------------------------------------------------
Current ISP: Andrews & Arnold (AAISP, aa.net.uk) via FTTC at ~36Mbit down & ~10Mbit up, joined July 2011.
Previous setup: Be Pro with UploadPlus (ADSL2+, AnnexM), 12ish Mbit down, 1.6 up, happy customer for ~2.5 years.
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