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Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 13:28:44
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Thinking of Infinity


[link to this post]
 
Hello - newbie to the forums here so please treat me gently!

I am tempted to order BT Infinity which is now available to my home, and I understand that because I am lucky enough to have the BT box right outside my house I should be able to get the maximum 40 Mbps download speed.

I am currently using O2 ADSL and getting speeds of 11 Mbps on average, so it would be a big jump for me to 40 Mbps and well worth doing.

However, as I want unlimited downloads that really narrows me down to BT only for this type of FTTC service, or wait for Sky's FTTC to arrive in April. All other providers seem to cap downloads, which destroys the object of fast broadband for streaming movies from Netflix, iTunes etc.

I am so very concerned at ordering from BT, because of their foreign call centres. I once had a nightmare time with Barclaycard's Indian call centre and never wish to repeat the experience! Can anyone reassure me that BT's call centres are reliable, don't just simply read from scripts, and will actually action a problem if you ring up to report one? What have peoples' experiences been on this?

Also is the Infinity service truly ok most of the time? I would be leaving a rock solid Internet connection with O2/BE so I am wary again of jumping into unnecessary problems.

Finally my BT Master socket is in the kitchen behind the microwave so obviously not suitable for a modem/router. However I understand that the BT Openreach engineer could if asked designate the BT installed extension point in the study upstairs as the "Master" instead for purposes of an Infinity installation?

Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks!

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 13:30:12)

Standard User G3UZF
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:02:49
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Go for it!

Being so close to the Cabinet is going to give you awesome speed and you will benefit most from the speed increase coming in April (should get 80Mbps!).

I survived with a D/L speed of 1.5Mbps for years, being 3.5kM from the Exchange. Never looked back since I had Infinity installed and now getting around 32Mbps being 650M or so from the Cabinet.

Reliability wise, can't fault it in the 9-months since I had it, although the first Modem died almost immediately and was swapped out the following day.

Indian CC's are a pain, as I can never get my brain around their accent, but hopefully, you shouldn't need to use it.

The BT/OR Engineer can use a 'Data Extension Cable' up to 30-M in length between the Master Socket and Modem if that helps with the logistics of positioning. You probably realise the Modem and Router will both need a Mains Socket each.

Good Luck

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Standard User mp90
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:05:24
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I was reluctant to move from an O2 legacy package to Infinity and I have no regrets whatsoever. The only thing that is traffic managed is P2P downloading, this wasn't an issue for me, but if it's something you rely on it's still available outside their peak hours. Not to mention Newsgroups are completely uncapped. Streaming works well with both iPlayer HD content and YouTube content loading instantly without buffering even during peak times. I haven't noticed any slow down at all. One thing to bear in mind about Sky is that they have only announced a 40/2 product where as BT will give you 10 up.

Can't comment on their call centres as everything went smoothly with my order and I haven't yet had to call them for anything.

As for the master socket part, they tend to accommodate what you want them to do within reason. My master is nowhere near where the computers are in my house so the engineer decided to use the data extension set up which involved drilling through an internal wall and took about two hours. He even called on another engineer to give him a hand.


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Standard User G3UZF
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:36:14
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: mp90] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mp90:
...As for the master socket part, they tend to accommodate what you want them to do within reason. My master is nowhere near where the computers are in my house so the engineer decided to use the data extension set up which involved drilling through an internal wall ...


Should have added as mp90 jogged my memory-

They too drilled through a thick wall (used to be the side of the house before a study was added, so it's a couple of bricks thick) and routed the Extension Cable around the Door Frame.

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Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 14:40:15
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: mp90] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your comments both of you - really helpful.

I'm a bit concerned about the data extension kit as I'm not keen on the idea of taking a cable up the skirting board at the side of the stairs from master socket in the kitchen to the BT extension point in the study upstairs, which would look very unsightly, But I'm sure BT engineers come across this problem all the time and find ways around it. Perhaps up the outside of the house?

Certainly from the comments you both make, Infinity does sound well worth it especially if there is going to be a speed bump to 80 Mbps soon too.

Decisions decisions ........ !
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:08:27
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Is it an incoming cable from a pole, or underground?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:22:35
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Hey,

Moved from O2 (3.5 megs solid for 2 years!). Now get 37.5 megs solid on ethernet.

Don't care about P2P. I also use older machines on wireless g cards and get 20 megs or so with them.

My master was in the lounge. Relocated it for me to the kitchen (!!!), no problems at all. Just ask nicely and they seem to have been told to do whatever they can - well, they DO want your Money for 18 months.

As for India. Well, I have had occassion to call them. If you are firm about what you want, and you have done all the right things FIRST - like do speed tests on ethernet using the BT speedtester, re-booted everything etc- then I found they got someone onto the case PDQ.

The only real issue was that the call centre does not usually have the up to date info about ongoing Broadband problems which may actually be affecting you (as in my case!). So, they send an engineer, and the problem has fixed itself. And there was no easy way to stop the engineer from coming (no charge, but a waste of his time really).

What is probably better is, that if there is a problem, use the BTcare forum, and send a message to the forums mods via their special form. They are UK based folk who can get the ball rolling if it's a genuine fault. So, there is a 2nd way to get to a problem if need be. Found this out myself the slow way, as you will see from a few of my posts!). And of course, HERE.

But, in general I would say it's a brilliant service - and I have the 10 megs upload package, and believe me, this DOES may a huge difference to the way you work.

O2 did a great job (LLU), and gave me 3.5-4 megs on a 59db line (managing a 3.5db noise margin). When Orange via BT's DLM tried, I got 135k-160k for weeks on end (I mean K !!). So, the line was long and was not going to be happy using the BT DLM system, hence the rubbish speeds. Now, well - this is now ...

http://speedtest.net/result/1757115127.png

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:28:42
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Is it an incoming cable from a pole, or underground?


It's a modern house built ten years ago, so the main BT cable comes in at the front of the house from underground. There is a white plastic cover covering the cable feed in from the ground to about 2 feet up the front of the house. From there it feeds straight to the kitchen, where the master socket is.

Looking at your useful website! My main socket appears to be an NTE-5 if that helps? Certainly has a lower part which is removable. All other sockets in the house - hallway, main bedroom and study upstairs - are the normal style ones.

The reason I want the router in the study is that I prefer an ethernet connection from the router direct to my main computer and my printer and the Time Capsule all of which are in the study. I have a complete network going from there to various other parts of the house via ethernet Homeplugs where possible, with the addition of wifi for the iPhones and iPad. If the router gets sited in the kitchen, I'm pretty sure there would be interference from the microwave.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 15:50:57)

Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:38:23
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobFlet:
What is probably better is, that if there is a problem, use the BTcare forum, and send a message to the forums mods via their special form. They are UK based folk who can get the ball rolling if it's a genuine fault. So, there is a 2nd way to get to a problem if need be. Found this out myself the slow way, as you will see from a few of my posts!). And of course, HERE.


Thanks Rob, that certainly sounds a much better idea than trying to cope with an Indian call centre. I love India, I've visited regularly, love the people, and after a couple of days there easily get tuned in to the accent. But on the telephone from the UK it's a very different story, and I find it immensely difficult to understand what they are saying sadly. That and refusing to deviate from scripts even if the script isn't appropriate, which can be really annoying.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 15:39:17)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 15:50:27
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
It's a modern house built ten years ago, so the main BT cable comes in at the front of the house from underground. There is a white plastic cover covering the cable feed in from the ground to about 2 feet up the front of the house. From there it feeds straight to the kitchen, where the master socket is.
Doesn't sound good.

It is quite doubtful that the master socket could be swapped to the study using the existing internal wiring, which if that has already been replaced by the house-owner, using CAT5, it sometimes can be.

I think the engineer's do have an external grade Data Extension Cable but I'm not sure. If they have, then you may be able to get the master itself resited to the study and the kitchen one made into an extension.

Is the kitchen one required for a phone, and how many other extensions are connected though? Are they wired to the back of the faceplate of the kitchen one?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 16:04:57
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi Roberto

Sorry, I didn't make that very clear. I haven't installed CAT5 throughout the house internally. My ethernet is completely external in the study only from the router, then I use Devolo Homeplugs to take it to power sockets around the house, but that won't affect the BT installation of course.

I don't use the main kitchen socket at all as it is behind the wooden trolley which holds a microwave.

The BT sockets in the house were all put there when the house was built - main one in kitchen, hallway, bedroom, study. Only the study socket has a landline phone connected as I really don't use a landline phone nowadays. It's there just for backup and for my Mum who is the only person who rings me on the landline!

Only the study socket was changed when I first moved in to incorporate a 2nd BT line, so that particular socket has two points in it. This was in the days when there was no broadband available, dial-up only, so I had a 2nd line installed for dial-up internet only. I cancelled the line rental on the 2nd line when I switched to broadband 8 years ago.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 16:18:40)

Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 16:15:48
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Hey, no problem.

I spent time working in Kenya and Mauritius! But weirdly, when I was working in St. Petersburg, all the locals thought I was Russian, and left me alone! In Kenya (in Kisumu and Lake Victoria region), the locals thought I was a "missionary" - (NOT!)

I have found the call centre OK, they aren't really script junkies, so that's good. Sometimes the line can be bad, and that does not help.

This is a good first port of call ... http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status

When I had problems there was a problem ithe Sheffield area (but on looking at the further details, the dialling codes affected included 01904, which was York, ie ME!). So, even though some way off down the M1, it was having an effect on MY broadband. It said, "time to resolve" 17:00, and once I had restarted the Home Hub, it gave me a new IP, and that was then end to the problems (but no new IP until AFTER 17:00 ... so I guess it was a real problem!!).

The main issue of course, is when you actually need to restart the hub? No-one can really tell you this, and it's hard to find out. Restarting the modem is not in general a good idea because this can make the exchange think your line is unstable (but I am sure you know about this....). Once or twice now and then is not a problem. But, all I had to do was log into the Hub, go to the Broadband section, disconnect amd then connect. And all seemed to be happy.

Oh yes, one thing, the Home Hub 3 has a USB port on it ... I have stuck a 32gig pen drive in it. This gives me network storage which is available to all devices connecting to the hub - a bit like NAS. Our household machines just drop off files into their folders on this drive, and then anyone can pick them up or uise them later. Others have used spinning USB disks too and that works, so you can basically use the HUB to provide a basic NAS pretty cheaply. Not saying other routers can do this as well, but as supplied, worked straight out of the box.

Oh yes, if you go BT, just don't load the BT Cd, there's nothing on it you need, and it might cause problems. The engineers certainly don't require it (even though the blurb seems to suggest they do).

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 09-Feb-12 17:26:23
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
A microwave will almost certainly give interference problems with any 802.11 transmissions and with VDSL any pickup or microwave radiation could affect the bit loading in certain bands.

You need to find a way of getting the socket away from the microwave. Maybe having a new master installed and cabled appropriately.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 17:31:30
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
A microwave will almost certainly give interference problems with any 802.11 transmissions and with VDSL any pickup or microwave radiation could affect the bit loading in certain bands.

You need to find a way of getting the socket away from the microwave. Maybe having a new master installed and cabled appropriately.


So it looks like I will have to pay BT Openreach about £130 to move the master socket, before I order Infinity? Or would they be able to do that as well on the same day?

Sadly there is no way I can move the microwave. The kitchen is tiny.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 18:04:51
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
If your extensions are hardwired out from the master I reckon if you speak nicely the nice OR man may be able to "move" the master to an extension position (ie the cable is in place).

e.g.
1. My phone came into the lounge - the master was in the kitchen and an extension upstairs. The entry point in the lounge was a flat plate.
2. When OR fitted my NTE box, they removed the plate in the lounge and fitted the box there. I then added an ADSLNation faceplate, and ran an ADSL cable to the kitchen to the O2 router. Worked fine.
3. When I moved to Infinity, the OR guy made the box in the kitchen the master, and put a face plate back on the lounge entry point. Just a bit of jiggery pokery withthe wiring. The upstairs extension (wired by BT originbally) still works fine and that's where I keep the base station).

So, I reckon that if you mention your problem when you order, I reckon they'll be able to do it. Good to avoid the £130 master move if you can ...

rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 18:07:16
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
Great, thanks Rob. I'll keep my fingers crossed! Yes all the BT extensions in the house are hardwired from the master.

I'd really like to go ahead with Infinity. From the comments here it does sound good.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 18:08:46)

Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 09-Feb-12 18:10:15
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Without knowledge of the exact layout of the property it is hard to say, but could an external feed be provided to an external wall of the study and then enter the house at that point?

Install a master in the existing socket in the study and then out from there to the other extensions.


I have tried a download using 802.11G and then started the microwave - it killed the download which immediately jumped back to life as te microwave switched off.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 18:41:13
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Without knowledge of the exact layout of the property it is hard to say, but could an external feed be provided to an external wall of the study and then enter the house at that point?


Yes, with no difficulty at all, providing the BT engineer is allowed to use a ladder as the study is on the first floor. It would be a simple matter if he could.

With or without microwave, I couldn't have the router and modem in the kitchen anyway, as I need to run ethernet cables from the router to my computer, printer and Time Capsule, all of which are located in the study. I prefer a wired ethernet connection if possible, as opposed to wifi. There are already 15 neighbours with wifi networks in this vicinity alone so it gets somewhat crowded!

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 18:42:18)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:23:00
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
This is the sort of thing I was heading towards.

(By the way, your earlier post was quite clear, just that I confused you by talking about CAT5. What I was saying there was that some people have replaced their extension wiring with CAT5, and where that has been done the BT Engineers are generally quite happy to move the master to the other end of it. There was no way you had done that smile).

This second line you had, did it have a master in the study? If so, how did the incoming line get to it? Using the built-in house wiring, or with a wire round the outside of the house?

However it was done, it looks like being the answer.

I would be worried about the microwave affecting a VDSL2 signal though, as MHC says, given its closeness to the incoming line, but don't see what can be done about that. His reference to it wrecking a wireless though I think is less relevant.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:25:07
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I have tried a download using 802.11G and then started the microwave - it killed the download which immediately jumped back to life as te microwave switched off.
I'm not sure how relevant the effect on wireless is, though to some extent I share your concern about VDSL2 wiring being so close to it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:29:30
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
... then I use Devolo Homeplugs to take it to power sockets around the house ....
Ummm.

What speed Devolos? From other posts it seems on FTTC that even 200Mbps ones can struggle. Anything lower, like 85Mbps ones, just aren't fast enough.

I assume they will work, just nowhere near full FTTC speed.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:47:17
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
This second line you had, did it have a master in the study? If so, how did the incoming line get to it? Using the built-in house wiring, or with a wire round the outside of the house?

However it was done, it looks like being the answer.


It was done 10 years ago when I moved in and I can't honestly remember. BT just turned up and put a new line in specifically for internet but as there is no wiring on the outside of the house, they must have used the internal wiring.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Thu 09-Feb-12 19:56:52)

Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Thu 09-Feb-12 19:55:46
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
... then I use Devolo Homeplugs to take it to power sockets around the house ....
Ummm.

What speed Devolos? From other posts it seems on FTTC that even 200Mbps ones can struggle. Anything lower, like 85Mbps ones, just aren't fast enough.

I assume they will work, just nowhere near full FTTC speed.


They are the 200 Mbps ones.

At the moment, my set up is:

Upstairs:
Study/Office: Netgear ADSL wifi router, 4 ethernet feeds to main Mac computer, printer, Time Capsule, and to Homeplug, all in the same room.
Main Bedroom: Apple TV running off an ethernet Homeplug to network

Downstairs:
Living room: Mac Mini acting as a media centre for movies and tv shows, connected to network via ethernet HomePlug
B&W speaker system with iPod Touch connected to network via wifi, streaming from iTunes Match or Spotify

Laptop in use in living room sometimes via Wifi and sometimes via Ethernet Homeplug

iPad and iPhones connect via Wifi all the time

Wifi round here does get very congested, hence the Homeplugs. Sometimes I am ok on wifi, sometimes not.

It's not the end of the world if I can't use the Homeplugs really. I can juggle the wifi. It's just that I've always presumed a wired connection is better, even if via a Homeplug.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Thu 09-Feb-12 23:08:00
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
From your comments, I do believe that, as I suggested earlier, moving the master will be the best option - provided you believe the cost is worthwhile. Have it installed in place of the slave in your study and they the internal wiring to run any extension phones you require. You will have a nice clean install, minimal internal wiring and all of your technology in one place.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Thu 09-Feb-12 23:21:11
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
But as I said in my post. My NTE master was in the lounge, and an extension was hard wired to the kitchen and then from there up to the bedroom.

So, the OR engineer simply removed the NTE master, linked the wiring coming into it from outside to the kitchen extension wiring (originally done by BT), and then put the the NEW master there + modem + HH3, and still had the extension wiring running upstairs.

This looks like the same can be done here .... remove NTE master in the kitchen and connect the incoming wiring to the extension to the study and install the new master there.

Depending on how the other extension wiring was done, they may or may not be able to be used ...

Depends how nice the OR personage is and if he/she is willing to go that extra mile, which for telephone wiring, is not that much, given that it looks like most if not all the wiring is in place.

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Feb-12 00:15:12
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
It very much depends what type and quality of internal cabling the builder installed. It seems to be the case that even BT-installed extensions are rarely suitable for carrying the VDSL2 signal to a repositioned master.

If it were, the whole concept of the Data Extension Cable becomes suspect.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Feb-12 00:22:11
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Are the two sockets in the study different? One with the bottom half removable by undoing two screws, and the other a single piece faceplate?

If so there may be a way.

Edit - Ummm frown. Reading back it doesn't seem so.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 10-Feb-12 00:25:32)

Standard User MHC
(legend) Fri 10-Feb-12 01:06:34
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
And you will end up with both pre and post master signal running through the same cable to other extensions which is an unacceptable practice. BT Techs are trained NOT to do that.

Also, there will be an unfiltered connection right next to the microwave which is a potential source of additional in band noise.

You may wish to have a non-standard installation but my advice is to go for a repositioned master with minimal in house wiring.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 07:29:59
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Are the two sockets in the study different? One with the bottom half removable by undoing two screws, and the other a single piece faceplate?

If so there may be a way.

Edit - Ummm frown. Reading back it doesn't seem so.


Sadly no. There is one faceplate in the study with two sockets.

I think that from reading everyone's kind comments, to be on the safe side and not end up with the risk of extension cabling going up the side of the staircase on Infinity installation day, I am going to have to get the Master Socket moved upstairs before ordering Infinity. Yes, the Infinity installation engineer might be able to run an external cable outside the house to the study, but he might not. He might be able to swap over the master sockets, he might not. Am I correct?

If so I'll contact a telephone engineer or BT Openreach and find out how much it will cost to move the master socket.

It does seem that it will be worth it though - Infinity seems a worthwhile upgrade? I haven't yet had anyone come on and say don't do it!

Edited by CarrieLaw (Fri 10-Feb-12 07:31:54)

Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 12:24:03
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Looks like I'm getting the master socket moved next week. Cable will be run round outside of house and straight into study, new master socket fitted, then other house extension points will be connected to that. Seems the simplest and neatest option, and far less worrying on Infinity installation day knowing that the cabling is already in place!

Once that has been done next week, I will go onto BT website and order Infinity. Anyone know how long it takes from order to installation, or does that depend on the area? Do I need to get a MAC code from O2 Broadband? My line rental is currently still with BT, only the broadband comes via O2/BE LLU.
Standard User mp90
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 12:40:40
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
You will need a MAC as the BT Order page won't let you progress without one. However it's worth noting that O2 do not automatically cancel the service when you've used your MAC code, I got caught out by this as I didn't read their email properly. As per their T&C's you will need to give them seven days once you've used your MAC code. This should work out fine as usually once you order Infinity the earliest install date is in seven days time.

I'd request your O2 mac now, can do this using the "Email Us" section of their website then once you order Infinity, send them an email saying you've used your MAC and would like the service to cease on the day Infinity is being installed.

I didn't let them know I'd used the MAC as rather confusingly, they send you an email saying it's being transferred, but they don't take this as notice of intention to cancel the account. They were trying to charge me for seven days usage after Infinity was installed, thankfully a quick phone call sorted it out. Their service was always top notch O2.

Edited by mp90 (Fri 10-Feb-12 12:44:03)

Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 13:33:10
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: mp90] [link to this post]
 
I've never had any problems with O2 broadband either, it's been a fantastic stable service and in many ways I am sad to leave. It's one of the reasons I'm hesitant about ordering Infinity - I keep trying to convince myself I should stay with tried & tested O2, albeit at only 10 or 11 Mbps download and very very low upload rate - but time marches on, and with streaming from iPlayer, Lovefilm, iTunes Match, Spotify, Apple Photostream etc.etc. I know use the internet so much more than I did when I first had the O2 connection. It is beginning to be limiting, especially in the evenings when it slows right down.

I wish BE/O2 had got their act together earlier with FTTC but I gather they are funded from Spain via Telefonica, and I hear that the required finance to go ahead with FTTC isn't by any means guaranteed at the moment with all the financial woes in Europe. I can't wait forever, so I think I've got to make the jump to Infinity now. I may regret it! But hopefully not.

Thanks for the advice on the MAC. I'll go ahead and order it from them now.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Fri 10-Feb-12 13:36:07
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: mp90] [link to this post]
 
Hey,

Exactly ... I ordered my MAC from O2 ... when I got it placed the order and made sure it was 7 days or more for the install, and then phoned and emailed O2 to say cancel the service from the install date. As smooth as velvet!

Seems like you have done the best thing getting a new master socket installed.

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Fri 10-Feb-12 13:42:31
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Yeh, I see that ... not knowing how the existing wiring has been done, then of course this whole approach could be problematic.

In my case the OR guy just crimped the incoming pairs to the extension cable pairs which went to the kitchen and then put the socket there and attached the upstairs extension.

That said, the kitchen USED to be the master until OR came to fix my line problems, and then they fitted the NTE in the lounge, with the wiring to the kitchen attached to the new NTE and then the upstairs then ran from the socktet in the kitchen which was then an "extension" (except, bizzarly, the phone socket part of the NTE did not work, only the ADSL part - so maybe the OR guy did an interesting "fix" on mine?)

Anyways, looks like a new Master socket install is happening, and is probably the best way to go. At least clean new wiring gives the best chance of everything working as it should.

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Fri 10-Feb-12 13:48:29
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
No problems.

Yes O2 was great. Maybe in 18 months time and they then have a decent FTTC offering, I may go back.

I was only getting 3.5-4 megs max, so not much use for any of the streaming stuff.

I upload pic to Flickr etc, and I find the 10 megs upload stonking!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsphotos2007/

Some XP2 test shots from when I tested it for Fuji. My main "passion" is flowers and trees - see that set for some colourful pics in the "flowers" subset! Leave a comment if you like any wink

Let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User k0065126
(learned) Fri 10-Feb-12 13:53:37
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I am not impressed by BT's 'Help Desk' as my last call to them was because I used to get 2.7Mbps when I joined BT, (not Infinity), but it was running at less than 1Mbps for quite a time in January. They decided that nothing could be done. (It might be due to the weather!!!!)

However, when I posted a message on one of BT's forums, (http://community.bt.com/t5/BB-Speed-Connection-Issues/bd-p/BBinHome), I was advised to contact the forum moderators who would respond within 3 days. They did and arranged for an engineer to come round within 2 days and he removed my antiquated master socket from the hall and replaced it with a modern one next to the computer. I am now connecting at about 3.1Mbps.

So, the 'Help Desk' is not very helpful, (except on the first occasion I used them), but the forum moderators are, and are very good, and should sort out any problem you have.

Viv
Standard User Daniel_g
(member) Fri 10-Feb-12 14:11:59
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Have 200Mbs ones, ok at 40Mb, when speed increases if I have in years to come as not paying more now then who knows. Try the ones you have to start with as mine go ok.

Edited by Daniel_g (Fri 10-Feb-12 14:19:08)

Standard User Daniel_g
(member) Fri 10-Feb-12 14:18:28
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
Read all of this and can't add a lot but like the photos, when I got the new camera in sept did similar with the flowers in the garden and next door as nicer.

noticed on kira the cat the fujifilm group liked it.

I have one of the not so new (now as out sept 2010 and far to expensive of 3400 I read recommended price ) fijifilm w3 3d ones.

Got for the best internet price of £185ish.

nice on the posh 3d telly with the daft glasses.

grat for going back on the holiday and days out in years. Back everything up to 2 external drives and on computer.

3d video is good.

off the point but looked at the photos so thought I would say!.

Now must start the housework, saves wasting tommorrow morning.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 14:33:43
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobFlet:
No problems.

Yes O2 was great. Maybe in 18 months time and they then have a decent FTTC offering, I may go back.

I was only getting 3.5-4 megs max, so not much use for any of the streaming stuff.

I upload pic to Flickr etc, and I find the 10 megs upload stonking!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsphotos2007/

Some XP2 test shots from when I tested it for Fuji. My main "passion" is flowers and trees - see that set for some colourful pics in the "flowers" subset! Leave a comment if you like any wink

Let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Rob


Great photos - love the swan!

Yes, I think a few pounds spent on moving the master socket will be a good thing and hopefully cut out any hassle. Just about to apply for my MAC code from O2 Broadband now. Hopefully I can return to them in 18 months or so when my contract with BT is up and they have their own FTTC up and running. It's very sad that they haven't been able to find the funding to go ahead yet.

Thanks again for everyone's help - it has been really appreciated.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 14:47:28
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: Daniel_g] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Daniel_g:
Have 200Mbs ones, ok at 40Mb, when speed increases if I have in years to come as not paying more now then who knows. Try the ones you have to start with as mine go ok.


Will do, thanks Daniel
Standard User Daniel_g
(member) Fri 10-Feb-12 15:09:04
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
had a thought.

having a nice strong signal to the computer as the good wireless N, HH gives this and also using the 2nd router linked to the home hub and that through the homeplugs as different rooms and HH3 by phone socket in a cupboard out the way. not ideal but not used on wireless for computer, printer and phone use it ok. 2nd slave router is a dual band so better as you thing 15 people around you is bad, I have had 20ish before now the computer was picking up sat near lounge window. Flat complex so many nearby people.

just done
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1764387741.png

BT router.

and speedtest on phone logging onto the same thing(nothing else going so 1 at a time), setting on phone wifi page say 72Mbs as stood not 3m from the router and gets 9.1Mb down but the full up at 1.8 so you might find the phones top out way short of the computer speed.
New phone on wirless N. sister old iphone 3g is only upto 54Mb wireless and that takes a sped drop. never does the same as mine and running same sppedtest app, but me on the android phone. Still same server I think and ame router.

If you find the phones slow if you get a good 30 something speed on computer, might be normal, or just me. Or one never gone over 10, stood there by router.

Just a though if you find or me speaking rubbish, might be me but computer goes a goodun!.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Fri 10-Feb-12 16:14:15
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: Daniel_g] [link to this post]
 
Thanks re photos!

Used S5100, then upgraded to S5600 (which is still a stonking good little camera), and then to the HS-10 (of course the HS20 and HS30 came out afterwards). But, I like the HS-10, nice 30X zoom on it, and I find I can use my Raynox 1.54x lens on the front, to give me an 1100mm equivalent long lens, (or 46X zoom !!! ). The swan was taken using this from a long way away! You can pick up an HS-10 dead cheap these days.

In the end I try to take pics so they are good "straight out of camera" (SOOC), with no cropping, straightening or photoshopping whatchamaycallits! Sort of a left over from my 35mm film days.

Anyways, housework done ... files backed up - time to upload a few photos I think.

All the best with the install - I'm sure it will go well. probably better to get in quick as there are a limited number of fibre connections in the new boxes. Basically not ALL phone lines which go to the old green box can be crossed linked to the fibre. In my cab there's only 144, and there's a lot more than 144 homes served by the cabinet.

I do wonder what the process will be when customer 145 asks for his Infinity?? And I suspect it won't long because most people on the cab are 1-3 megs maximum at present - it's a 51db drop back to the exchange on the old copper before you add in the loss from the cabinet to your house - and these lines are the aluminium ones, which add lots of noise on top of 7-9db drop in signal as well.

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones
Standard User Daniel_g
(member) Fri 10-Feb-12 17:10:21
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
hello

nice camera as just looked. full HD video, mine does the 720hd but looks ok on the telly, yours even nicer then.

I like a small camera that turns on, if a bit slow what I have and just goes.

Caroline is a bit more keen and tries to do close ups on auto, most flower shots (obsested) don't work so never ending rubbish to wipe off.

Use macro and a fighting chance but does not learn,

Always said noce to get something like that years ago but then a pain on a day out as not going into a small camera case around the neck!.

Got the 3d one now for money point and shoot stuff.

Close up stuff like flower heads with the stalks and greenery behind I have learn't to spin the wheel round to the macro 3d setting of some sort. Take 1 photo, shows up lighter on the display and then again offsetting the camera to give a double image and camera does the processing and clever 3d stuff. good on the telly.

auto close up rubbish and anything less than 1.6m to close.
have to compose shots a bit more now and need a close forground, middle and back really for 3d depth.

Dad did the camera thing with the lenses and film slr from 84 to selling it to generate money for the high8 camcorder in 91. £1000 in those days for the best comsumer format. VHSc, I don't think so. Showing age now. Only had 3 video cameras and the newest was last year. 10 years each, moneys worth. Wander how long this point and shoot 3d thing will last.

Gort the BT infinity in may and runs at the 37.5 so nice. Can do 67 or so the unlocked mondem says. Not paying for upgrade soon when it comes as get the mention here on this site. only have 1 computer so fine for years I guess. Like we all said with 2Mbs in 2004sih.

always moving on and fibre to our homes.
Was the story on here about some places being done and the big village 4 miles away was one.

Phone line made of wire, so last year!.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Fri 10-Feb-12 17:29:42
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: Daniel_g] [link to this post]
 
Agree, the better cameras with decent lenses are much bigger. The HS-10 is the size of an SLR. The HS-20/HS-30 have the better CCD devices and also have remote shutter releases as well - set up camera looking at bird table - press wireless button to shoot when birdy comes by! I do this by just sitting and waiting, set the camera to do multiple frames (about 7 per second), and just fire it off when the time's right!

However, I did like the XP-20 I tested for Fuji. Pocket size, but waterproof, freezeproof (good at the moment!), shockproof etc - simple select shooting mode from wheel (about 30 of them!). From snowboarding action shots to dreamy sunsets!

A test I saw put it into HD video rcording, dropped it, kicked it in to a river, fished it out and replayed the video! Whole event recorded on another camera, so you could see the resultiung video was not fake!

And, why did they just feature the Nikon one which does this (at 3 times the price) on one of these "must have gadets" shows. The Fuji has been around a while.

My first picture with my HS-10 was this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsphotos2007/4717249845/

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones

FujiFilm HS-10 User
Standard User Daniel_g
(member) Fri 10-Feb-12 19:09:06
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
Wireless camera, getting posh.

Gadget show then, Was one they bit daft tests with rugged ones last year so that I guess.

Caroline looking at the sun paper she picked up as a cast off at work today.

Whats got the beeter picture of a nice looking bird, your first photo or the paper.

Nice owl.

I get boring views or me looking pained when on a walk.

All good stuff.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Fri 10-Feb-12 19:22:41
Print Post

Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobFlet:
All the best with the install - I'm sure it will go well. probably better to get in quick as there are a limited number of fibre connections in the new boxes. Basically not ALL phone lines which go to the old green box can be crossed linked to the fibre. In my cab there's only 144, and there's a lot more than 144 homes served by the cabinet.

I do wonder what the process will be when customer 145 asks for his Infinity?? And I suspect it won't long because most people on the cab are 1-3 megs maximum at present - it's a 51db drop back to the exchange on the old copper before you add in the loss from the cabinet to your house - and these lines are the aluminium ones, which add lots of noise on top of 7-9db drop in signal as well.

Cheers,

Rob


Hmmmm I hadn't realised that there was a limited number of fibre connections in each box. I guess I'd better get my order in quickly then, before Sky launch their cheap £20 per month FTTC service and the hoardes descend on it! smile

I've requested my MAC code from O2, so I just hope O2 don't cut my internet off before BT have come to install Infinity. I always worry that these transfers will go horribly wrong. I did make it clear to O2 in my email to them that for now I just want the MAC code in preparation for migration and that I wasn't giving 7 days notice of end of contract, so fingers crossed.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 10-Feb-12 22:47:58
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
The standard cabinet has space for 288 connections, but only set up for 100 initially. Takeup generally has been poor.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 10-Feb-12 22:48:29)

Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Sat 11-Feb-12 08:26:00
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm really surprised to hear that takeup has been poor of Infinity. Is this because folk like me are very very wary of BT's customer service and Indian call centre problems? Or because of the cost? Or (again a little like me) half think "my current broadband isn't top speed but it works, and if it isn't broken, don't fix it!"

I do expect an awful lot of new FTTC connections via Sky's new service in April though. Many folk appear to be waiting for that as it is only going to be £20 per month. I've decided against that as being totally unlimited without traffic shaping, it is going to attract the leechers and speeds may drop considerably? Also I don't really want to get tied in that deep with Sky, as they take over your telephone line too and I gather it's more difficult to migrate away. I've already experienced Sky's hard sell 2 weeks ago when I tried to cancel my Sky tv package and was pressed to accept 1 year's free ADSL internet and free line rental if I stayed with them. In the end I decided against it, again for the reasons above.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 11-Feb-12 11:26:23
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
I'm really surprised to hear that takeup has been poor of Infinity. Is this because folk like me are very very wary of BT's customer service and Indian call centre problems? Or because of the cost? Or (again a little like me) half think "my current broadband isn't top speed but it works, and if it isn't broken, don't fix it!"
Hard to say, but it gets reported frequently. It isn't just Infinity, it's Openreach FTTC in general. Though BT Infinity has by far the highest takeup due to price.

Given that, why have they recently dropped the price to the same as ADSLx? It clearly wasn't selling on desirability, and I'm sure they won't have done it out of the goodness of their hearts.
I do expect an awful lot of new FTTC connections via Sky's new service in April though. Many folk appear to be waiting for that as it is only going to be £20 per month.
Probably.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 11-Feb-12 12:44:41
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
>>I'm really surprised to hear that takeup has been poor of Infinity

It hasn't.

BT Group Q3 results reported BT Infinity alone added 95k customers in the quarter.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 11-Feb-12 14:36:22
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RandomJointer:
>>I'm really surprised to hear that takeup has been poor of Infinity

It hasn't.

BT Group Q3 results reported BT Infinity alone added 95k customers in the quarter.
Here you go again frown.

Robflet: "In my cab there's only 144, and there's a lot more than 144 homes served by the cabinet".
CarrieLaw: "I hadn't realised that there was a limited number of fibre connections in each box".
Me: "The standard cabinet has space for 288 connections, but only set up for 100 initially. Takeup generally has been poor". (Note no mention of Infinity. My way of condensing the often reported fact that takeup of Openreach FTTC is often reported to below BT Group's expectations).
CarrieLaw: "I'm really surprised to hear that takeup has been poor of Infinity ....".
Me: "It isn't just Infinity, it's Openreach FTTC in general. Though BT Infinity has by far the highest takeup due to price." (Clarification).
CarrieLaw: "I do expect an awful lot of new FTTC connections via Sky's new service in April though".
Me: "Probably".

The whole point is that CarrieLaw does not really need to worry about the number of connections in a cabinet, but that she has a point about Sky may be a game-changer.

Calm down (RJ) dear.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 11-Feb-12 14:39:46)

Standard User RandomJointer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 11-Feb-12 15:11:23
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Always calm, Roberto.

Fact is you were posting misinformation that FTTC takeup was 'generally poor'

It isn't and you were called on it.

BT Infinity alone added more punters in Q3 than Virgin added to cable broadband in the whole year.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 11-Feb-12 15:41:59
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RandomJointer] [link to this post]
 
I stand by my statement that FTTC takeup is generally poor. Infinity takeup is quite good due to its cut-throat pricing policy.

Unfortunately I don't have access to Openreach and BT Wholesale data on original and revised forecasts against current connections, but believe what I read in respect of those.

I think we both consider Infinity would be a reasonable choice for CarrieLaw.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User gt94sss2
(experienced) Sat 11-Feb-12 16:41:38
Print Post

Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I stand by my statement that FTTC takeup is generally poor. Infinity takeup is quite good due to its cut-throat pricing policy.

Unfortunately I don't have access to Openreach and BT Wholesale data on original and revised forecasts against current connections, but believe what I read in respect of those.


I suspect that BT are actually quite happy with the FTTC uptake rate (regardless of what they said about Cardiff in March 2011) - hence their decision to increase the rate of their openreach roll-out.

At the moment, they are doing 7,300 BT Infinity installs/week - a 16% increase in the rate compared to the previous quarter.

As most of their big competitors haven't yet launched FTTC products in any meaningful way, BT Retail will also be getting lots of new customers (and having traffic on their own network always appeals to them)

Added to that, other ISP's customers will be ordering FTTC as well

FTTC is now available to 7m households - BT Infinity alone has 400,000 customers (5%) and many of those areas won't have had it available for long, so expect to see a higher uptake as people get used to it being available/see it at their friends/family or finish existing contracts (or Sky etc. roll it out)
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Sun 12-Feb-12 08:52:56
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: gt94sss2] [link to this post]
 
There is only one thing now that really does put me off pressing the "order" button for BT Infinity, and that is the horror stories I keep hearing about the customer service in India - or rather lack of customer service. And I suspect that is the same for many people.

I'm absolutely sure now that I want an FTTC connection and have already arranged for my master socket to be moved in readiness, but as yet I'm undecided which company to go for. If I want unlimited at a price I can afford to pay, it has to be either BT or Sky really - but if I could get by on risking 120GB a month I'd probably go for PlusNet or Eclipse in hopes that their CS would be better than BT. Eclipse may be the better bet as I understand downloads at weekends do not form part of the allowance. I know both say you can download overnight outside of the allowance but that isn't any good to me as I'm an early bird to bed!

It's a shame more ISPs don't offer unlimited on FTTC. The whole object of FTTC to me is be be able to download/stream movies and tv shows, music from Spotify, plus the content of iTunes in the Cloud and Photostream. In a way, pricewise to me this feels like the early days of dial-up again on pricing, where I used to have to pay a fortune for an ISP and pay by the minute online. My phone bill regularly ran to £90 a month. Maybe it's simply because it is early days too for FTTC and prices will come down eventually.

EDIT: Apologies I've just seen that Eclipse do indeed do unlimited, but unfortunately it's a LOT more than BT Infinity at £59 per month + line rental. But it's a possibility if I give up my Sky tv package. I suppose I could give Eclipse a try on their cheaper 100GB allowance and see if it's enough for me, and if not bite the bullet, get rid of Sky, and use that money to upgrade to unlimited with Eclipse.

Edited by CarrieLaw (Sun 12-Feb-12 09:03:39)

Standard User prinknash
(committed) Sun 12-Feb-12 10:10:46
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I'm also tempted to switch to Infinity because, for the same cost as my current Zen package, I'd get unlimited usage instead of 50GB downloads at around twice the speed (maybe). But I'm worried about customer service and possible restrictions on what I could do with the connection.

For example: I got the impression from something I read that BT insist on outgoing emails passing through their own SMTP servers and being sent using a BT email address. All my emails have gone for some years through 1 and 1's email service to/from my own domains and I'd obviously want to keep on like that using 1 and 1 servers. Would I have a problem or have I misunderstood something?

I also got the impression that I wouldn't be able to make use of the free WIFI connections when out and about if I didn't share some of my own WIFI from the HomeHub. I'd want to use my existing Billion 7800N (with its Ethernet WAN) instead of the HomeHub - and, indeed, Linux rather than Windows - and, again, I've got the impression that this would cause a problem.

Any advice gratefully received.

p
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Sun 12-Feb-12 10:28:36
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: prinknash] [link to this post]
 
I hadn't heard about the outgoing emails problem and certainly if true that would be a dealbreaker for me as I've used Fastmail.fm for years and would want to continue doing so.

Regarding the HomeHub, I would probably give it a try for a while and if unhappy then switch to a Netgear. I know Netgear routers work with FTTC as Plusnet and Eclipse use them. I'm confident with Netgear routers, I know their UI, and like to set up my own internal network with assigned IP addresses etc.
Standard User nelix01
(committed) Sun 12-Feb-12 10:28:42
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I think in reality, most people on here who have Infinity, have an excellent trouble free service. I have had Infinity since April last year with no issues what so ever. Given the price, it is excellent value for money and with download/upload speeds going to double in the next couple of months, it will get only more attractive a proposition.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Sun 12-Feb-12 10:30:03
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: nelix01] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nelix01:
I think in reality, most people on here who have Infinity, have an excellent trouble free service. I have had Infinity since April last year with no issues what so ever. Given the price, it is excellent value for money and with download/upload speeds going to double in the next couple of months, it will get only more attractive a proposition.


Yes, like every ISP really - we only tend to hear about the very bad experiences. I'd probably be very happy with Infinity as long as I never had occasion to ring the customer service desk in India.
Standard User prinknash
(committed) Sun 12-Feb-12 11:09:08
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Thanks CarrieLaw.

The Billion 7800N has an EWAN port and certainly works with Infinity; and I wouldn't want to change it. I've had quite a few routers over the years, including from Netgear, and most have been fine - but the Billion is the best I've found so far. But as you say, it's largely a question of what you're used to and comfortable with.

Apart from anything else, I need to be able to control from the router end when my daughters can access the Internet and when they can't! Don't know whether that's possible or not with the HomeHub.

p
Standard User gt94sss2
(experienced) Sun 12-Feb-12 15:40:51
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I remember the days of £100/month dial up bills and am glad I no longer face them - though I must (one day) cancel the 2nd line I put in for net use.

On FTTC, I would say the following:

There have been remarkably few unhappy BT Infinity customers on these boards since it was launched. I would have expected more tbh with 400,000+ customers but BT seem to be pulling out all the stops to ensure customers are happy.

I guess the fact that all the installs are done by an engineer helps a lot as it eliminates poor wiring which was the cause of a lot of low speeds with ADSL.

You mention customer service but I suspect that a bigger factor which prevents more people from upgrading is that they don't realise how conservative the FTTC checker is - if it says 40Mbps, you are very unlikely to get less, while with ADSL you could get a lot less when sold an upto 8/24Mbps product.

Its obviously your choice which ISP you want to go with - if you choose another ISP, don't forget you can usually 'schedule' downloads overnight with the right software, even if you are asleep..

If customer service is really important to you, you could also have a look at MHC's posts. I believe he has a 'BT Infinity for business' connection on a residential line which costs slightly more (£5/month?) but comes with support in the UK

I haven't been able to visualise your internal layout but one thing you want to consider (though you may decide this is too much trouble) is cancel the master socket move, book an FTTC install and see if the engineer will move the socket as part of the install when he is there. If not, you could always cancel the install and rebook the socket move. I believe (though do check) you can cancel an FTTC install right up to the point it is actually installed.. but as I say you might decide that this is too much trouble.

Edited by gt94sss2 (Sun 12-Feb-12 17:19:10)

Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Feb-12 15:46:49
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
If you want unlimited, just go with BT.

It's not difficult.

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
Speedtest Tracking
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 12-Feb-12 15:47:38
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
Except that, if you read this forum, you'll see a vast majority of infinity users singing it's praises.

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
Speedtest Tracking
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 12-Feb-12 16:52:28
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: gt94sss2] [link to this post]
 
Definitely no issues with the Business support - yes getting a problem fixed was a long issue but not their fault - down to Hub build levels, and the support there for the whole of the problem and I did not have to go through the same checks every time.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 12-Feb-12 16:54:17
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I have email accounts on non-BT servers and they are in use daily without any problems - one is a pain to set up but that is not BT related.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Sun 12-Feb-12 18:04:07
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Definitely no issues with the Business support - yes getting a problem fixed was a long issue but not their fault - down to Hub build levels, and the support there for the whole of the problem and I did not have to go through the same checks every time.


Now that's very interesting. I wouldn't mind paying a little extra for peace of mind of UK business support. I note that it's £5 + VAT per month extra for unlimited, but that's fine. And it's ok to have Business Infinity on a BT Residential Line? What is the BT wifi Hub like on the business Infinity, or can I use my own?

Sorry if I've upset anyone by worrying about BT Residential Infinity. I was just going by various Which? reports talking about unhappy users, but that was on their ADSL service I think.

I've been looking at Zen, but in all honesty I'm not sure it's worth paying that much for a limited service. BT look as though they would be fine for me with the Business Infinity service. Thank you! You've all been really helpful and I can't thank you all enough.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 12-Feb-12 18:12:16
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I have Business Infinity on a Residential line - you may need to tell BT that you work as an independent consultant or similar.

You can use your own hub or there will be one supplied by BT. Currently it is a 2wire 2701 but is due to change to a device similar to the Home Hub but with modified Firmware and possibly some slight hardware changes. The 2701 is wirelessG and 100Mbit ports - not an issue for me as feed straight into a Gigabit switch. The New version in wirelessN with at least one Gbit port.

As for unhappy users - probably ADSL, but remember there will be unhappy users of every ISP and what is never shown is the percentage of unhappy users with each ISP.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Sun 12-Feb-12 19:29:37
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: orly] [link to this post]
 
I would agree. Most people on Infinity are very happy. And remember, there's loads and loads of them all quite recently!

You are in general really only going to see those with problems airing their views.

Even looking at the issues on the BT Care Community Forums, an awful lot is down to people having wireless setups wrong, people expecting more than they could get speed wise etc. Those with genuine problems, and there are some, quite a lot does seem to tbe down to some more generic problems on the network. Looks like some routes around the BT network are misconfigured in some way, or the routers involved can't cope with the load (but I would suspect misconfig, rather than a simplistic load issue). These problems in the main are being sorted out and peoples' problems are automagically going away. Not all, I admit, but quite a lot.

What would be nice is if there is a router problem in the network, it would be good if those running that side of the operatrion would let the call centre folk know, and give some idea of the range of IP addresses etc involved, and then perhaps the responses from the call centre would be a bit more useful.

I now check here before worrying about problems:

http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status

But, I bet all ISP's suffer from the same problem sometimes -

Still delighted really with my Infinity, even with a couple of glitches. Other than those, it's been ROCK SOLID at 37.5Megs down and 8.8 megs up since connection.

Cheers,

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones

FujiFilm HS-10 User

Edited by RobFlet (Sun 12-Feb-12 20:15:24)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 13-Feb-12 00:02:57
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
I hadn't heard about the outgoing emails problem and certainly if true that would be a dealbreaker for me as I've used Fastmail.fm for years and would want to continue doing so.
They block port 25 outgoing, which is the normal one for SMTP servers.

This is possibly to do with the fact you get a dynamic IP address from them, which makes tracing back to you difficult if your computer gets compromised and starts issuing spam/virus etc. emails. You may have changed IP address several time before anything comes to light.

They do not stop you using mail hosts such as fastmail. The POP3 server is accessible, and you can send using the BT SMTP server with no problem, as long as you set up the General tab with your fastmail email address and the same as the Return address.

However, you may find that distasteful. I do. But I think that reaction is probably illogical. The only thing I can think objectionable in any way would be that using that method shows people who examine your sent email headers that you are using BT as your ISP.

As has been said, you can get round this port 25 block anyway, and continue to use the fastmail SMTP ones.

I just connected a friend who is on Infinity to a service which also offers port 26 to access their SMTP server. Fastmail provides port 25, port 26, and their preferred port is 587.

The first day I tried setting him up it was at the end of a long hard day, and it didn't work. Everything still went out through BT, though incoming was fine. A couple of days later I went back and had it working in 10 minutes. It could have been to do with the fact this was a brand new setup of the hosted email service.

In your case it should just be a question of going into the email account settings of your email client, and altering the SMTP port. Though there's a fair chance you already have it at 587.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Mon 13-Feb-12 08:40:26
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Roberto. I don't use POP email as my email is accessed on 3 different devices - Mac, iPhone and iPad - so I use IMAP. I've just checked my outgoing IMAP ports for Fastmail in Apple Maill.app and it is ticked as "Use default ports 25,465, 587" so it looks as though it should be ok. If not, there is the ability to set a custom port anyway.

One final query, I promise! Do you know anything about the problem some folk appear to be having with streaming from Spotify on BT Infinity? I use this all the time, it's a superb service. Something to do with Spotify using P2P connections and thus getting throttled by BT, even though BT says they are not throttling Spotify? I don't really understand the technicalities behind it.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 13-Feb-12 15:49:18
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
smile
I use IMAP these days as well. As you have spotted, that still needs the SMTP server. You shouldn't have a problem.

Re Spotify, not a clue sorry.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User Duck
(regular) Mon 13-Feb-12 16:15:04
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
One final query, I promise! Do you know anything about the problem some folk appear to be having with streaming from Spotify on BT Infinity? I use this all the time, it's a superb service. Something to do with Spotify using P2P connections and thus getting throttled by BT, even though BT says they are not throttling Spotify? I don't really understand the technicalities behind it.

Spotify has been raised before, doesn't seem to be a major problem -
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/4061381-spotify-...

Sky Unlimited
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Mon 13-Feb-12 17:22:30
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: Duck] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for everyone's input and patience with my many questions! I'm going to run the risk with Spotify and order BT Infinity anyway.

Master socket has been moved today into my study so that the router can connect straight to it, and immediately I got ADSL download speeds of nearly 15 Mbps which was a big leap. However fibre optic is the future, so I may as well make the jump now and order it. So thanks again everyone, all your help has been truly appreciated.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Mon 13-Feb-12 18:20:19
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by CarrieLaw:
Thanks for everyone's input and patience with my many questions! I'm going to run the risk with Spotify and order BT Infinity anyway.

Master socket has been moved today into my study so that the router can connect straight to it, and immediately I got ADSL download speeds of nearly 15 Mbps which was a big leap. However fibre optic is the future, so I may as well make the jump now and order it. So thanks again everyone, all your help has been truly appreciated.


From your original 11 Mbps to 15 Mbps is a significant jump and it says a lot about your internal wiring!





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 13-Feb-12 18:23:02
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
You're unlikely to regret it smile.

As for the jump to 15Mbps - builder wiring is often rubbish. How are the other extensions fed now?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobFlet
(committed) Mon 13-Feb-12 20:27:42
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Lookin' good!!!

Betcha get the full whack of a tad over 37.5 megs ... so, double anda bit more again over what you have now. Sounds a winner all the way.

Enjoy

Rob

1999 Freeserve Dial up --> Freeserve Anytime ---> 2005 Wanadoo 512k BB ---> Jul 2009 Orange up 8 Megs(hah!) --> Nov 2009 O2 LLU -> Nov 2011 BT Infinity( getting 37.5 megs now on ethernet)

Yamaha AW16G user
Red5Audio Microphones

FujiFilm HS-10 User
Standard User CarrieLaw
(newbie) Mon 13-Feb-12 20:50:22
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
You're unlikely to regret it smile.

As for the jump to 15Mbps - builder wiring is often rubbish. How are the other extensions fed now?


Not entirely sure, but I know the engineer asked me if he could leave the bedroom extension socket disconnected as the wiring to that was different - he said it was "builder installed" wiring as you say and not good. This house was built about 10 years ago. I said yes leave it disconnected as I don't use the main bedroom extension socket anyway. The original master socket down in the kitchen was reconnected to the system as a standard socket and now feeds my only landline in the house.

It's certainly quite a jump in speed and the router stats say it is holding rock steady at that speed. He showed me the difference on a speed monitor before and after the changeover of master socket. Before, the speed was wavering all the time. After, it just shot up to the top speed and stayed there. If I'd have known, I'd have had the master socket changed years ago!

I'm still going to go ahead and order FTTC anyway, secure in the knowledge all is ready for the installation now.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(learned) Mon 13-Feb-12 20:51:55
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: RobFlet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobFlet:
Lookin' good!!!

Betcha get the full whack of a tad over 37.5 megs ... so, double anda bit more again over what you have now. Sounds a winner all the way.

Enjoy

Rob


Yep it's looking good to go now Rob - thanks!

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice, really appreciated.
Standard User CarrieLaw
(learned) Tue 14-Feb-12 08:44:24
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
From your original 11 Mbps to 15 Mbps is a significant jump and it says a lot about your internal wiring!


Indeed it does. I've made the decision to go for Business Infinity simply for my own peace of mind re a UK call centre and the added plus of the BT Prompt Care. Also they say they will guarantee at least 16 Mbps even during the "after school" deadlock time when everything slows down. I've had Total Care on my phone line for a long time so I could drop that.

Plusnet was also an option and came highly recommended by the engineer who moved the master socket yesterday, but I'm concerned about the 120 GB limit. It's probably much more than I would use in reality, but once I start streaming movies and tv shows, I could see me getting through that quite quickly. I wish BE would hurry up with an unlimited FTTC offering - I'd take that up without hesitation. I've had a BE line via O2 for some years and it has been solid and reliable.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Tue 14-Feb-12 08:59:45
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Re: Thinking of Infinity


[re: CarrieLaw] [link to this post]
 
I notice a very small slow down in the early evening occasionally. Maybe 500kbps ! and have never got anywhere near the 16Mbps threshold.

When I had a problem in December/January and getting very inconsistent speeds they were happy to investigate even though it was no where near 16Mbps but in the mid 20s compared to my normal 36. Support knew what they were doing and no repetition of tests on every call even though the issue was hard to find they stuck at it.

Let us know which Hub you are supplied with ...





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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