Fibre Option 3 Much Slower than Predicted Speed

I've just had BT Faster Total Broadband Option 3 with fibre fitted. I was given an anticipated download speed of 10 Mbps and an upload speed of 2 Mbps. I have just carried out a speed test a couple of days after installation and I'm only getting an upload of 3 Mbps and a download of 0.5 Mbps. Is there anyway of getting an engineer to work on my line to achieve speeds nearer to those I expected? The engineer that fitted the broadband was unable to test the line after installation as he couldn't get a signal to hold on his test equipment. He originally said that if his speed test was under 10 Mbps another engineer would visit to work on the line. But a speed test was unable to be carried out.

I understand that my line is connected to a cabinet that is actually the second closest one to me - is there anyway of getting it moved to the closest cabinet? Is there any chance the speed will improve in the next few days or should I contact BT straight away. I'd imagine that it wouldn't be possible to connect the line to the closest cabinet but is there anything else an engineer can carry out to improve the speed? Any advice much appreciated.

Hi New3fibre,

With the Broadband only being installed there is a 10 day stabilisation period, so you might notice your speeds improve over the next few days.

I can run a few checks on your line from here if you like. Send me in your details using http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

Thanks

Paddy

In reply to a post by BT_Care:

With the Broadband only being installed there is a 10 day stabilisation period, so you might notice your speeds improve over the next few days.

It's time the bosses of BT found out that that is rubbish on Infinity, and sent out new guidance to their staff such as you.

2.2.5 Dynamic Line Management
Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly manages lines to maintain a target stability. It does this for as long as the product exists.
At provision, the line is put on wide open profiles, allowing downstream line speeds of up to 40Mbit/s, and upstream line speeds of up to 2Mbit/s, or 10Mbit/s. depending on the upstream product option selected.
On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before intervening, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.
If DLM intervenes it will set a capped profile with a maximum rate and a minimum rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate. The purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve. If this happened, then the line is likely to remain at a very low rate till a re-train is forced by the user powering off the Active NTE.

The above has not yet been updated for 80/20 but the same principle applies. The old BT Wholesale DLM also runs, in order to set the IP Profile, but has no direct control over the line.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 16-May-12 11:04:33)

What speed did you have from ADSL previously?

Also worth pointing out is that DLM cannot and will never increase your speeds over what you get when you first connect, it always connects at full speed then DLM reduces it if necessary.

The FTTC one I quoted does in fact say that in the quote , but I agree that with more than 140 characters before that bit some may not see it . Maybe the English is too complex for BT Wholesale to understand, as the top brass don't even understand the same principle is also true on their own ADSLx ones.

What may be the case on WBC-routed FTTC is that the IP Profile is set low at connection time, like the 2000 on ADSLx sometimes is or used to be. That could explain the persistance of this myth. But given that the IP Profile now rises immediately the sync is set that would also show their lack of realisation that what may have been true years ago under a rickety ADSL Max DLM is no longer correct.

RobertoS

I think the definition of this may need better explaining. When I first got FTTC, the BT engineer did a test and said I was getting 35mb down. However he said that this speed may change over the next few days and so it did down to approx 30mb and thats where it sat until profile 17a came along. So in summary I think from my experience that there is some stability issues at the start which then settle down?

Many thanks for all the replies. I have been trying to get another engineer out to work on the line. So far, I've been told over the phone by BT that there are several errors on the line and that the highest speed I can ever possibly expect is 3.6 Mb. This is only just over a third of the 9.1 Mb I was originally quoted in writing.


At the end of the day, I am paying £26 a month for a supposedly superfast connection whereas previously I was only paying £10.50 a month with Plusnet. I wouldn't have minded paying so much more to gain a speed around 9.1 Mb but I feel somewhat cheated that I am only getting 3.1 Mb so far.

I am hoping that it will be possible to resolve the errors on the line and that the speed will increase but if not, have I any case for requesting a reduced monthly charge as the speed is more in line with the basic £13 a month service than the Option 3 service. I am about to start working from home so I was looking to acquire a fast a connection as possible.

I believe Openreach provides a right to cancel within 90 days if your achieved speed is less than 50% of your estimated speed.

In order to cancel Openreach must be given an opportunity to fix the fault, doesn't look like BT are co-operating so far though.

Many thanks for the information. I haven't checked the small print yet so I didn't realise I could cancel if the speed is under 50%. It's only been running at 30% since the installation. Realistically then, I couldn't cancel if BT get the speed up to over 5 MB but even that relatively low speed looks unlikely.

Does anyone know if the 1.2 mile distance from the cabinet is preventing me from gaining a faster speed than 3 MB? Is it possible that some tweaking to the line will improve the speed or is the 1.2 mile distance ultimately going to prove impossible to improve? The irony is that there is a cabinet only 0.6 mile away but for some strange reason I am not connected to this one.

Edited by new2fibre (Mon 21-May-12 10:12:18)

The cancellation clause is part of the terms on which Openreach provide the line and backhaul service to your ISP, whether your retail ISP passes that privilege onto you is another matter, but I would hope that they do.

I would expect well over 10mbps at 1.2 miles. On ADSL2+, my line (2359m length according to BT) was achieving 16.7mb. 10mb is quite a conservative estimate, and given a good line I'd expect max sync speeds in the 15mb-20mb range, though it may not stay stable at those speeds.

Many thanks for the reply. It does sound as though I should be able to get a lot faster speed than 3 MB. The engineer inititally thought I should get at least 15 MB but then found he had difficulties getting a sustained signal from the line with his test equipment.

I've just heard from BT and I've been told to wait until the end of the 10 day period and then to reset the router (is this the button on the back of the white router rather than the black hub?). BT think that the speed will go up to at least 9 MB when I reset the router at the end of the 10 day period but I think it is pretty doubtful.

On a near perfect line of around 1.2 miles or 6300 feet, I would have expected to see about 25Mb downstream and possibly 2Mb upstream - based on experimental results I have seen. Factors which will affect it are: background noise, cross talk, line quality/attenuation, and the exact band plan in use. The original 10Mb estimate take those into account and probably more than necessary which is why most reports are of people receiving the predicted speed or greater.

Most of this is outside the OPs control, but it might be worth turning off everything in the house (including fridge, freezer, radios and anything on standby) just to make sure that there is nothing causing interference.,

Many thanks for the reply, it definitely seems as though I should be getting a much faster speed than 3 MB. As I was saying though, the installing engineer couldn't carry out a speed test on the line as his test equipment couldn't hold a signal. It strikes me as though I am stuck with a poor quality line here. I will try disconnecting everything but ultimately it seems that the line will probably need to be worked on.

BT seem to think that it is usual for the speed to be slow in the 10 day period to train the line but on the contrary I have read online that many connections actually get slower after their initial speed! I certainly hope my speed doesn't slow down or I'll be going back to dial up speeds I was getting 10 years ago! Can I just check that BT meant me resetting the router (i.e. the white box rather than the black hub) when asking me to reset the router at the end of the 10 day period? As you can tell, I'm not technically minded!

Can I ask what you mean by 3MB ... is that 3 Mega bits per second or 3 Mega Bytes per second? There is a significant difference between the two. a lower case b refers to bits and upper case B to Bytes - you need to ensure you use the correct b or B also m for milli and M for Mega.

You should get faster but if all the line factors are against you then it really can affect the capability of the line. If the technician could not achieve sync - it does suggest the line is of poor quality/high impedance/noisy ...

Have you considered reflashing teh modem firmware which will allow you to see and report line stats?

The white box is the Modem, the black is the hub /router.

In reply to a post by MHC:

The white box is the Modem, the black is the hub /router.

The above is perfectly true, however to force a resync (which is the only way that the line speed will increase) you need to reboot (switch off then switch on or press the reset button).

So you need to reset the white modem irrespective of what BT say!

The download speed I achieved was 3 Mbps so it is just under a third of the predicted speed. I've just double checked the letter of confirmation and the predicted speed was definitely also quoted in Mbps.

It sounds as though I've got a pretty awful quality line. I don't suppose that BT would fit a new line for me, realistically is there anyway of BT improving the line or will this require a lot of work? (not to mention expense!)

To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean re: reflashing the modem firmware as I'm not very technically minded. If the line is of poor quality though, this seems to be the main bugbear, over and above the distance from the cabinet.

I will reset the black hub on the 10th day after installation (I presume this is what the BT guy meant when asking me to reset the router) but I can't imagine it will make any difference. Probably a silly question but is there any chance I will mess up the present connection by resetting the router. Although 3 Mbps is pretty slow, the actual connection has been extremely reliable since the installation so I don't wish to risk messing up the connection!

Many thanks again for all your help - in a nutshell it seems as though unless I can get my line worked on and significantly improved, I'm going to be suffering from relatively low speeds.

Many thanks for the reply. So on the 10th day after installation, I will turn off the modem and back on before resetting. Do I need to reset the hub as well?

To be honest though, it seems as though my poor quality phone line is causing the slow speed. BT are giving the impression that the speed will miraculously improve 3 fold at the end of the 10 day period but I find this hard to believe!

The big question is whether BT will do anything dynamic to improve the line and the amount of work this will involve. Any thoughts on how I can get the line improved would be much appreciated.

Are BT under any obligation to improve the line which basically seems very poor - the fact that the engineer couldn't get a signal from it shows that it must be in poor shape.

In reply to a post by new2fibre:

Many thanks for the reply. So on the 10th day after installation, I will turn off the modem and back on before resetting. Do I need to reset the hub as well?

If the following guide makes things easier for you (considering your previous statement of having minimal technical ability) then please follow it.

(1) Once the nominal "10 day period" is over, power off the hub/router and the (white) modem, in that order. Go to bed, leaving those two devices powered off.
(2) Next morning, power on the (white) modem.
(3) Eat your breakfast.
(4) Power on the hub/router.
(5) Now make use of your broadband connection

Are BT under any obligation to improve the line which basically seems very poor - the fact that the engineer couldn't get a signal from it shows that it must be in poor shape.

No, unfortunately. There is only a standard specified for the telephony service.

There is, however, nothing to prevent you from terminating the FTTC service -- at no cost to yourself -- if the performance is sub-expectation (advised typical performance) and you have given the provider a chance to correct it.

Edited by burakkucat (Mon 21-May-12 16:15:37)

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

If the following guide makes things easier for you (considering your previous statement of having minimal technical ability) then please follow it.

(1) Once the nominal "10 day period" is over, power off the hub/router and the (white) modem, in that order. Go to bed, leaving those two devices powered off.
(2) Next morning, power on the (white) modem.
(3) Eat your breakfast.
(4) Power on the hub/router.
(5) Now make use of your broadband connection

In addition to that, I always suggest disconnecting the phone socket to modem cable, and the Ethernet cables from modem to hub and hub to PCs. When and only when everything is up and fully booted to connect them:

Phone Socket to Modem
Modem to Hub
Hub to PC(s)

Many thanks for the reply. I didn't realise the resetting procedure was as simple as turning off and on before! It does seem as though my inferior phone line is causing the trouble though so unfortunately it looks as though the only way I'll achieve a faster connection is to move house! Am I right in thinking that Infinity (if it ever comes to my area) won't improve the situation as I'll still ultimately be relying on my phone line.

I will try and get BT to at least look at the line if the resetting after the initial 10 day period doesn't improve things, Thanks again.

Many thanks, I will ensure that I follow those steps on the tenth day. I can't imagine that resetting will improve the speed as it seems the phone line is the problem but it's worth a try.

It just gives it a nice clean restart ... It may not improve it, but I know of cases where it has.

Am I right in thinking that Infinity (if it ever comes to my area) won't improve the situation as I'll still ultimately be relying on my phone line.

The Infinity service from BT Retail is just their name for the provision of Openreach GEA (generic Ethernet access) where the DS throughput will be >= 15 Mbps. You are subscribed to the BT Retail service which is offered to those whose line quality or length precludes the DS throughput speed of >= 15 Mbps. You are still using the Openreach GEA product. In other words, it is all a marketing "smoke and mirrors" effect.

Without moving house, there are only two ways for your current situation to be improved:

(1) Openreach repair / replace the D-side cabling (from the PCP to your house) which, although being within specification for a telephony service, is detrimental to the FTTC VDSL2 signal. For that to occur, you would need to finance the work.

(2) You are eventually provided with a FTTP service. (A future event.)

I reset the modem and hub and the speed was exactly the same as before. I moved the phone from the Openreach socket and connected it to a different phone socket. When I used the phone the broadband disconnected. Is this another sign of a fault with the line? I have 4 different phone sockets in the house on the number the broadband is connected to, am I right in thinking that the higher number of phone sockets, the lower the line quality is or is the number of sockets not significant to reducing the line quality?

This morning I carried out a speed test and the download speed has now dropped down to 2.1 Mb from 3 Mb! Is it possible that the broadband disconnecting last night when experimenting with the different phone socket has led to BT reducing the download speed?

Many thanks again for all your help.

Lots of disconnections will cause DLM to reduce your speed as it sees this as line instability.

Using the phone should not disconnect your broadband, this is a fault and should be reported (or so I'm told)

Given that you may have an internal wiring fault and reading through the thread I couldn't see that you had tried using a test socket to connect.

If you have a split face master socket can you unscrew the bottom half of the socket and plug your modem into the test socket and see if that makes a difference?

If this improves things you can start troubleshooting your home wiring, micro filters, phone equipment etc.

When the broadband faceplate has been removed do any of the phone sockets in the house still work? If yes, they are wired wrong, as removing faceplate should disable them.

Original BT install engineer for the fibre service should have checked that.

I am a little concerned. As this is a FTTC installation, there should have been a SSFP fitted at the NTE5/A.

It reads as if there has been an incorrect installation, which should now be rectified by Openreach.

Many thanks for all the replies. I am not very technically minded so am not totally sure what "SSFP fitted at the NTE5/A" means. I am getting an engineer out to hopefully sort out the problem. I haven't been online much recently as the 2 MBps speed isn't really fast enough to spend too much time browsing and whole idea of getting FTTC installed has caused a lot more fuss than I was expecting.

Broadly speaking, it seems as though either the line coming into the house (outside of my control) is poor quality and causing interference, the extensions running inside the house are poor quality and causing interference (these can be disconnected to hopefully resolve the problem) or the fact that the installation was not carried out properly.

I am hoping that the engineer will soon recognise what's causing the problem and sort it out so I can get in the region of the original 10 MBps. Apart from explaining the problem to the engineer, is there anything else I should ask him to check/carry out?

Many thanks again

Post deleted by cnr500

Apart from explaining the problem to the engineer, is there anything else I should ask him to check/carry out?

The engineer should be carrying out an end to end PQ test, look over their shoulder as the test runs, look for red crosses or grey exclamation marks rather than green ticks, ask the engineer to explain the results.

Ask them to run a manual sync test, noting the sync rate, snr, and theoretical max sync. Ask them to rerun this test on the incoming pair (where the line enters the premises. Ask them to check that with the SSFP removed all other extension points carry no dial tone.

If the sync rate doesn't vary between the two test points, ask that they ring the FTTC SMC and request a recalc of sync rate, this should be done upon completion, or if the capped sync requires removing to continue faulting.

Good luck.

Where are you in the country ? It might be me !

FYI, Zarjaz is a BT engineer installing FTTC. So trust him.

He didn't explain SSFP. That's Service Specific Face Plate, i.e. the filtered faceplate that should have been fitted to the master socket, and that your modem should be connected to.

^{Edit - If anyone read this before the edit, the bits deleted were because I confused the OP with another.}

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 27-May-12 22:52:22)

And to conclude the clarification (as I am the one who typed "SSFP fitted at the NTE5/A"), NTE5/A is the designation of the "master" socket with the split front, the lower removable half being the end user's responsibility.

Many thanks for all the replies. The engineer was really knowledgable and soon sorted out the issues on the line, all the internal wiring faults were rectified and the test equipment gained a signal which was not possible when initially installed. The fault on the line was soon removed. The engineer said that the speed would be increased within 72 hours and that I should get the predicted speed of 10 but unfortunately the speed is still only 3.2!

Is there anyway I can check that BT has requested the speed to be increased? Can I check my profile with BT?

Is it possible that the speed has been increased by BT but the line is incapable of handling a speed faster than 3.2?

I'm calling BT again tomorrow, it certainly seems as though all the physical work that could be carried out has been completed.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated but it appears that despite all the work on the line inside the house, the line from the cabinet to the house is preventing a speed faster than 3.2 and it won't be possible to resolve this.

The engineer should have rung the FTTC SMC and asked for a recalc. Did you see any test results on the engineers test kit, sync rate and the like ?

Yeah, the engineer should have requested the reset and re-tested while he was there. Some may not be aware of this though, as may people deliberately trying to get a DLM reset by Openreach get rather inconsistent responses.

Many thanks for the replies. The test on the line achieved a speed of 4.2 Mbps and that is unfortunately the highest speed the line can take. It is under half the original predicted speed but as the line from the cabinet to the house is causing the problem there isn't a way of improving the speed.