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Standard User lordmedikit
(member) Mon 20-Aug-12 19:48:19
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BT Infinity Order issue


[link to this post]
 
Hi

I'm just wondering if this is normal (a forum search didn't turn anything up).

We ordered BT Infinity with Unlimited Weekend + Evening Calls on the on Friday of last week. We were promised a call (presumably to get billing information and confirm the install) within 48 hours. This did not happen, instead what we got was an automated message and email this evening stating that out new service will be provided on the 5th Sept.

What really concerns me is that the email and tracking page it links to say nothing about broadband, just about the calls package and also the billing information seems to just be for a calls package. Additionally, we opted to pay 12 months line rental in advance which would come off as a one off payment, however there was a £0.00 amount for any one off payments on the tracking page.

Is this normal and they will add the correct details later or have BT already screwed up? (a record for them maybe?)

I'm also really confused that they're giving us install dates, etc. but they haven't yet asked for any payment information?

Thanks for any replies.
Standard User StephenTodd
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 10:08:33
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: lordmedikit] [link to this post]
 
It seems normal for BT ordering to get things wrong. The people worst affected are those that order a BT line and infinity on the same order ... it looks as if they ordering system will happily accept such an order, but that the internal systems don't then allow them to deliver it.

My 1 year payment did not go through either. To be fair they did ring to warn me and ask if I wanted to do it on the call. I didn't as the next bill had just gone through by then.
I ended up with three different order numbers for the single order, with tracking information somewhat inconsistent between them.
Despite saying they were transferring my calls back to BT, they didn't cancel my Carrier Preference Service with another company (Primus).

I think it is probably worth a call to sales to check that they really do have the order you made.

That said, they did install Infinity on the date they had originally said; and apart from a mistake by the Openreach installer, the installation and Infinity connection have gone very well.

--
Moved (with trepidation) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User lordmedikit
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 17:06:02
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply!

I think we will be calling BT about this shortly!

I notice from your sig that I seem to be following in your footsteps from BE to BT.

It saddens me given the speed and professionalism BE have had in handling my cancellation compared to BT's incompetance but the speed difference is so vast and I really need the speed for online backups etc. so that's the only reason I've even considered leaving BE.

Hope they have a competitive offering by the time my contract with BT ends and I'm sure I'll be back in a shot!


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Standard User StephenTodd
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 17:16:38
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: lordmedikit] [link to this post]
 
Alas I'm not at all sure BE will ever get an FTTC offering, or if they do that the price will be right. We are two of many.

Good luck with Infinity. After a few glitches (as well as the ordering glitches) it has been going very well.

I see you are interested in upload speeds, as I was. Be aware that the BT speedtester is unreliable for upload. Try http://mcslhr.visualware.com/myspeed/myspeed_line_ca..., it gives the right answer.

I had to change my backup provider as well. Real speeds for various uploads that I saw:

backup speeds, kbps
~~~~~~~~~
CrashPlan: 600
IDrive: 2700, rock solid
ZipCloud: 1000
DropBox: 3200, but very irregular
GoogleDrive: 2400, slightly irregular
SquirrelSave: 7500 (after minor hiccup which was my fault), up to 8200. 17000 with WinSCP

And a lot of backup clients have speed limiters with default rates set appropriately for ADSL.

--
Moved (with trepidation) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User lordmedikit
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 17:41:43
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
Interesting!

I am currently with CrashPlan and was hoping this would increase my speeds to them crazy

Well I guess I'll have to see what I get when I'm all set up and go from there...
Standard User StephenTodd
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 17:59:43
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: lordmedikit] [link to this post]
 
CrashPlan and CrashPlan UK are very different. I was with the global one. I think the servers are in Atlanta. I think you may be ok if you are CrashPlan UK.

SquirrelSave seem to be the BE of UK backup. Unlimited, not too expensive, and really quick response from email queries. They don't have a forum, though.
They don't mind you using your own client (such as FileZilla) or you can mix and match, using their client for files that might change regularly, and another client for cases where you want your own control of what gets backed up when. They have nice server-side history management, that can work for files backed up either with their client or with your own. And, no I don't work for them or gain any commission for new customers.

--
Moved (with trepidation) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User lordmedikit
(member) Tue 21-Aug-12 21:02:54
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: StephenTodd] [link to this post]
 
You're being unbelievably helpful. Thank you!

If I may impose another question, could you tell me if this sounds right to you?

We spoke to BT today (some billing guy, sounded like he was UK based) and he basically said:
- we can't provide Infinity on a non-BT line (but it is a BT line just with 24Talk as the provider, not BT) and regardless we are moving our calls to BT as part of the order
- therefore BT have cancelled our Infinity order and made a bog standard phoneline order which has nothing to do with the order we originally placed and includes no Internet
- apparently this will be 'moved' on the 5th September though I was under the impression that providers like 24Talk just use BT lines so I image this will just be a settings change in a database.
- only once this line has been 'moved' will BT then allow us to place a new order for BT Infinity with the call package we originally ordered!

This sounds insane to me. Why can't they do it all together properly and why didn't they inform us properly - we got some garbled recorded message phone call from them and an email with no explanation.

I'm also confused that they haven't asked for billing information, but apparently they will send us the bill afterwards?

Way to make a first impression! It's like they don't want our money / custom!
Standard User StephenTodd
(member) Wed 22-Aug-12 11:39:50
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Re: BT Infinity Order issue


[re: lordmedikit] [link to this post]
 
I don't think I can help much further; apart to reassure you that it is BT that are insane, not you. The rest of the post is to say what I think is going on. It might help you directly, though I am afraid not. It may very well prompt other posts that correct my rather muddled understanding, and maybe help a little bit more.

I'm not quite sure about the rules for telephone lines and calls. They are clearly all pretty artificial, dreamed up by ofcom to permit competition. To be fair, the whole situation is so artificial that I'm not sure they could have done much better; and I don't think sure sticking to the GPO would have seen us any better off now either. Apart from LLU, the differences mainly seem to be software only differences about charging, and who arranges for Openreach to fix any problems.

There seem to be a few styles of line/call rental, starting at the most BT oriented. Very approximately:
1) Openreach line, rental paid to BT retail and calls paid to BT retail.
2) Openreach line, rental paid to BT retail and default calls paid to someone else (eg Primus, ..., using CPS).
3) Openreach line, rental paid to someone else (eg TalkTalk, BE) and calls with the rental provider.
4) Openreach line, rental paid to someone else (eg TalkTalk, BE) and calls with yet another provider. (ofcom rules force BT to accept CPS and carrier override numbers like 18866; but I'm not sure they are 'equal' and force this on other line rental providers. Not too relevant to broadband anyway)
5) non Openreach, non cable line. Unless you live in Hull, I don't think this is possible in the UK????
6) cable. I think the only normal one nowadays is Virgin cable.

Clearly, if you have cable line, ADSL/FTTC in the normal way is not possible.

I don't think there is any technical reason BT or TalkTalk can't provide their broadband service (ADSL or FTTC) to anyone with an Openreach line, regardless of how you are paying for line rental or for calls. However, such bundling is fairly common. For example, BE will only provide landline if you take their broadband. As far as I know, there are not any ofcom rules to prevent or discourage such bundling. Such bundling seems universal in the FTTC arena.

It seems that it is people in situation (3) that BT just can't manage at all properly. Even though BT FTTC is only sold bundled to BT phone; BT order completion/delivery systems are not properly connected; so you can't get a single 'order' that delivers you a BT phone and Infinity in one. Worse, BT order acceptance system is not properly connected to BT order delivery system. It will accept a combined order for phone and Infinity that BT order delivery system cannot then deliver.

If this is correct, it seems that ofcom should intervene. It seems that a company should not be allowed to accept an order that they know they can't deliver on.

I was in situation (2). BT managed the order with only minor errors which didn't change the delivery date and the installation of Infinity. Installation was also fairly clean, though with another minor error by Openreach meaning they did not regularize my old GPO wiring to Infinity.

--
Moved (with trepidation) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.

Edited by StephenTodd (Wed 22-Aug-12 11:41:38)

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