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Standard User mayavirupa333
(newbie) Sat 10-Jan-15 09:26:00
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Upload issues


[link to this post]
 
My story: Remote N Wales property about 2km from Llithfaen exchange. FTTC just implemented. I moved from ADSL+ (6.2 down /.38 up) to BT Infinity 1 on Nov 21st, and was connected by an unhappy newbie from "Kelly's Heroes”. Synced at a 22.00 up and 1.00 down.

For cloud / server use I was specifically hoping for higher UPLOAD. I was naively hoping / assuming that the Up would be about 25% of the Down as in “up to 40/10”. Before and after Infinity, this line has always been stable.

I reported the slow upload, usual call-centre nonsense and wise guys online till Mod intervened on BTCare forum. He was clear my profile was “up to 10Mbps Up” and he checked things with BT Wholesale etc. Since had 2 top notch OR engineers. The first got the speed up to 25.00 / 1.6, and the second (who replaced 3 poles-worth of cable), on Dec 30th, up to 29.5 / 3.00. The Down is now well above original estimate, and the Up has now crept into the lower end.

As the Mods & Engineers have been so helpful, I feel I haven't many grounds to continue complaining - unless I know there is a simple implementable solution! Thus this post! I am confident this line is now as clean as a whistle, and no-one can give me a clear reason why the Up/Down ration is 10:1 instead of the 4:1 implied by all the promos.

I feel sure that this line could easily manage 7Mbps, and I’m on less than half. It seems to me that some routine software somewhere is limiting the Upload for no other reason than that very few people are bothered about it! Especially with a stable, higher than expectation down. Any thoughts? How exactly is the Down/Up ratio determined? Why does mine still cap at (an eerily precise) 3Mbps even after the 2 recent resets? Might another ISP be different - I see Plusnet often show a 2:1 ratio of Down /Up?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Jan-15 09:36:45
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Re: Upload issues


[re: mayavirupa333] [link to this post]
 
Ignore the ratios they are not set in stone at all.

What is important is your distance to the street cabinet, at 25 Mbps the guess is about 1200m. 3 Mbps upload is in the ball park for that speed.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mayavirupa333
(newbie) Sat 10-Jan-15 11:39:44
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Re: Upload issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Andrew. This is what I was told at the outset, but because I persisted, my upload has been TREBLED thanks to the 2 engineer visits.

My download is well above expectation, the upload is right at the bottom. Same wire. Why??!


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Jan-15 11:46:25
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Re: Upload issues


[re: mayavirupa333] [link to this post]
 
Because of the way the signal is split across the frequency bins and impact of different power masks.
With vdsl2 the upstream is arranged differently than with adsl2+ so you can see stepped changes

The key to knowing whether to keep trying for more is distance to the cabinet

Connection stats from the home hub would be useful too

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mayavirupa333
(newbie) Sat 10-Jan-15 20:34:32
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Re: Upload issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
If there is a "dummy's guide" to "frequency bins" & "power masks" et al - do please post a link!

Meantime, in my blissful ignorance, I still feel this is much simpler - and the chat I had with one of the BTCare Mods this eve tends to confirm this. He explained to me (again) about DLM, and that it seeks out the highest most stable level, and that therefore my 3Mbps Up is simply that.

But, I argued, my line has never been tested with the 6/7Mbps Up that the engineers think it should be well capable of. After the installation it sat consistently at precisely 1.00, after the first reset at 1.6, and after the third reset at 3.00. It was perfectly stable, so did not need to "settle" to a lower rate. Just stayed rock solid at the start rate, hour in hour out. As far as I can see, the DLM system never tried anything higher. Because, I tend to think, nobody is bothered much about Up, so it just fixes at a safe level. If somebody (like me) persists, and the computer is kicked (to use a technical phrase) then DLM bumps up another safe notch. But, I feel, never truly tests for the highest possible Up as it seems to do for the Down. No doubt algorithms are responsible as they are for most modern life!

So I just want the DLM computer to be politely asked to just try offering a 7Mbps Up and see what happens! From all the evidence of the last weeks, I would bet a kilo of copper that it would be very happy and stable - and then so would I!

Anyway, I understand my naive theory is going to be addressed by Openreach next week, so I will keep you in touch with any developments!

My most recent hub stats are here and am happy to post anything else that might help, even PM you my number etc.

Thanks again.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 10-Jan-15 22:51:45
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Re: Upload issues


[re: mayavirupa333] [link to this post]
 
Why do you think your line is capable of 7 Mbps up, when the DSL checker estimates 4.5 Mbps max?


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 10-Jan-15 23:19:39
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Re: Upload issues


[re: mayavirupa333] [link to this post]
 
Crude but simple is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very-high-bit-rate_digi...

NOTE: The DLM system will have tried the maximum sync speed within the first two days of the lines active life and if seeing errors the DLM tends to lower sync to the point where errors don't impact on throughput.

If the line improves the DLM does relent and give back speed, have tried this theory and seen it work on two lines I have.

As for forcing it to try 7 Mbps, if there is not enough usable frequencies left then the modem would sync not sync if tried to force 7 Mbps on the upstream.

To see if there is a chance of you getting more, then a bin plot and some head scratching to look over the figures would be needed, i.e. well above the pay grade of BT support or any of the engineers who visit. They are trained to use their test kit, not understand the nuances of the VDSL2 works.

The key to your puzzle is your line length, as from that we can see if you are out performing expectations or under performing, If you have no idea where your cabinet is then PM the address to me and will try to figure it out for you.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mayavirupa333
(newbie) Sun 11-Jan-15 00:34:48
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Re: Upload issues


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Two reasons:

1) The DSL checker says max clean 24 Down and 4.5 Up. I have had stable 30 Down for a couple of weeks so if this same “higher than expected performance” is applied to the Up, then it seems to my simple brain that 5.5+ is a fair expectation.

2) I talk about 7+ because I am paying for an “up to 40/10” connection, and I therefore expect the ratio of Down/Up to be 4:1. So in my case: 30 / 7.5.

I completely accept my ignorance in these matters, and that Mr Saffron is no doubt correct to say the ratios are meaningless - I joined this forum to learn. But I contracted to BT on the basis of being sold this ratio and will fight for it until I have been completely convinced it is not possible! Bear in mind that I was assured in late November from near and far that my 1Mbps was quite acceptable, and through persistence this has now been TREBLED!

I hope to report back in a week or two that it has been further doubled!
Standard User mayavirupa333
(newbie) Sun 11-Jan-15 00:36:21
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Re: Upload issues


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I’m sure you’re right about the DLM systems trying maximum sync etc., but I saw no evidence of this in my many speedtest results through the whole period since installation. Installation engineer calls on 21/11/14; syncs at 22:1. Stays the same all day / every day. Engineer comes 19/12/14, syncs at 25:1.6. Stays the same all day / every day. Second engineer comes on 30/12/14. Syncs at 30:3. Stays (more or less) the same all day / every day. So I see no DLM activity at all - but no doubt like the Wizard of Oz it’s all happening behind the curtain!

I am almost exactly 1 mile (1.6km) from the cabinet, so by most conventions my Down is over-performing rather well! I also know that I was only the 4th connection to the cabinet and this was still true a week or so ago. I gather this is good news re “crosstalk”…

Your reference to a “bin plot” will surely have alerted the NSA to our posts smile) Hopefully tomorrow I will have an inkling of what it is when I try to digest the link you kindly posted.

Thanks again.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 11-Jan-15 00:50:00
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Re: Upload issues


[re: mayavirupa333] [link to this post]
 
Can you post the latest estimate from the DSL checker and your latest line stats please? The stats you pointed to are last week's.


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