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Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sun 09-Apr-17 21:46:06
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
David W
the costs of exiting these sites is a modest one-off cost


The metallic pair rearrangement is hardly modest from the information made public (Multi £m), but would still be cost effective if the rent went up enough. Once the existing lease is finished the landlord can basically raise the rent to astronomical levels enough to force any tenant out over time.

The issue with the OP is that they are with an ISP that doesn't provide FTTC and therefore was/is not interested in any offer OR have made. His way out is to leave and take a FTTC service from any ISP that provides one.

This is the same issue that affects all those people complaining about slow BB that will not upgrade from ADSL to FTTC/P in other parts of the country. Better services are available to many BUT people won't change either due to cost or cussedness.

The disproportionate effects do fall on ADSL customers BUT that is why OR have made the offers of FREE for x months rental to migrating customers. This is also part of the cost of exiting the building.
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Sun 09-Apr-17 21:56:08
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
ajseeds

The lease may already have been extended to give time to exit the building. The landlord can also increase the rent once the lease has run out and this may prove prohibitive forcing the move out. Example:- If you landlord doubled your rent over 5 years would you stay put especially if you knew it would double every 5 years until you moved.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 09-Apr-17 21:59:38
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
I haven't checked - are there any ISPs offering 18/2 FTTC yet in these circumstances do you know? It seems to be what it was introduced for.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 09-Apr-17 22:11:17
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
I should have added that Openreach has been running a special offer for those on Chelsea exchange, with free FTTC for 6 months (which I believe has possibly been extended now) and free installation.

Obviously it's up to ISPs to pass this on and I have no idea if any have.
Chelsea, Openreach special offer extensions to 30 Sept, including 18/2 FTTC. (The dark blues for those not familiar with OR price displays).

Interestingly the only one not rental-free is the 18/2.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User David_W
(knowledge is power) Sun 09-Apr-17 22:48:16
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
The metallic pair rearrangement is hardly modest from the information made public (Multi £m), but would still be cost effective if the rent went up enough. Once the existing lease is finished the landlord can basically raise the rent to astronomical levels enough to force any tenant out over time.
Apologies for the inexact language I used. I meant "modest in relation to the whole lease rental costs for a building for which there is no ongoing operational necessity now and which is of no ongoing technical benefit once ADSL from the exchange is obsolete". If the landlord wants market rent for a building in Chelsea, and - pulling a figure from the air but with some thought to alternative commercial or residential opportunities if BT vacated the site - insists on a minimum 25 year term for any renewed lease, a multi-million one-off cost to exit is likely modest compared the opex of the rent alone. If you add on the opex savings from operating one less site as well as any possible sweeteners the landlord offered BT to quit, the decision to quit is obvious.

Though the additional E side length is unfortunate, the direction of travel is clear. E side metallic pairs might become obsolete before the rest of the metallic pair network. It will be interesting to see how CPs respond once SOGEA is a live product and they can order 'naked' FTTC without an E side pair; this might drive a push towards VoIP based voice.

I believe everyone in the coverage area of the former Chelsea exchange now has FTTx available; certainly Openreach intended to upgrade all unserved areas as part of the closure of the exchange. Indeed, it is possible that the cabling works required on the former EO lines to provide FTTC or even the entire costs of all the FTTC upgrades were included in the millions of pounds quoted for network rearrangement.



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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 09-Apr-17 23:49:39
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
If you are with, or move to a provider that sells FTTC services (hint original poster needs to that, there is a good reason Post Office is at the bottom of the speed test results if it even makes it to the table) then I believe all the lines in Chelsea have FTTC as an option now.

Some new build near the Thames recently went live with a few cabinets.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ajseeds
(newbie) Wed 12-Apr-17 23:22:58
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for further comments.

1. On the WRCHEL lease. In fact the leases in this area mainly expired around 2010. In 2012 BT took a further lease, expiring 28 September 2020. Not sure that the parties can contract out of the provisions of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954. Where there is a dispute on the new rent both parties generally call in their expert valuation evidence and eventually a deal is done.

The landlord is the Trustees of the Sloane Stanley Estate and I do not think that any of the Trustees are in such straitened circumstances as to wish to live in a telephone exchange, even one located in Chelsea.

3. My company would be quite pleased with an arrangement where it can occupy space at zero rent, paying only business rates on it.

As for FTTC round here, I have heard from Openreach today that one of my other lines, which has an intermittent battery fault, must await replacement of a piece of damaged 50 pair before good service can resume. We'll see how long that takes to achieve.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 13-Apr-17 00:12:40
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Re: Central London ADSL Downgrade


[re: ajseeds] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps if the cabinets were on lifts so could sink down into the pavement there would be less objection? Out of sight, out of mind?

Or if rent is the real issue, on top of the forthcoming business rates increase, what would be a fair rent for a VDSL2 cabinet?

Edited by MrSaffron (Thu 13-Apr-17 00:13:58)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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