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Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Thu 30-Nov-17 18:45:01
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Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[link to this post]
 
I'm about to begin the process of migrating from FTTC to FTTP (BDUK have funded OR to infill about 40 houses with FTTP who could only receive FTTC from the neighbouring village at <<10Mbit/s or ADSL at <2Mbit/s).

BT are my ISP.

I'm concerned about the loss my FTTC connection prior to FTTP being up-and-running, especially as groundworks are required to get fibre to my house (current phone line is direct buried from chamber in the road immediately in front of my property) and also a FTTC to FTTP migration is outside of the norm.

Anyone been through this, or have any tips to manage BT through this?

Thanks,

Simon
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 30-Nov-17 18:59:54
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
As not all providers deliver FTTP services over the Openreach network there will not normally be a massed move of customers across to the FTTP network.

BT Retail may decide to do that for you, but that is them initiating it not Openreach and thus they should be in touch, particularly as there is the install cost (which is either charged or spread over contract term).

In short the works to install FTTP will not see your FTTC removed and even once FTTP is available you may well need to pester to get moved to the new service.

Or put another way the copper will remain in place and even if they rip it out of the ground to put it into ducting this will be done in a way that ensures minimal downtime for the phone line due to the 999 service USO

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-Nov-17 19:10:51
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
In short the works to install FTTP will not see your FTTC removed and even once FTTP is available you may well need to pester to get moved to the new service.

Or put another way the copper will remain in place and even if they rip it out of the ground to put it into ducting this will be done in a way that ensures minimal downtime for the phone line due to the 999 service USO

Agreed, when they was installing our FTTP we were still using our ADSL2+ Connection, it was only once it was all complete where we had to swap the Smart Hub over to the new connection was when we lost connection.

So we lost our connection for about 90 seconds if that in the swap over.

Then 5 days later FVA was activated to which I had / was told to swap the old copper line to the new FVA cable into the NTE5A Master Socket.

So overall it was a sort of seamless transition from copper to fibre.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 312.47 Mbps (down), 29.78 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)


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Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Thu 30-Nov-17 19:19:24
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the response.

To be clearer, WBC FTTP now shows as available on the BT wholesale checker as well as FTTC for my number. I currently take a FTTC service. I want to order the FTTP service as we struggle with the 5 Mbit/s we presently receive. I'm not expecting this to happen automatically. At the moment the internal databases at BT aren't showing that FTTP is available so I can't actually order (although the BT wholesale checker does show FTTP as now being available, and WIltshireOnline have also contacted me to say FTTP is now available. BT have raised a query with OR for me and I have a reference number for this)

Our road has had new ducting and chambers and fibre built for this new service.

What is missing is the final connection from the road to my house and my understanding is that this won't be built until I order an actual FTTP service. The checker shows 1 stage install and that my line is partially directly buried.

My concern is BT's ordering system coping with simultaneously providing a FTTC service until the FTTP install is complete. I don't want my broadband to suddenly go dead as I work from home and receive VOIP calls there... (I had a nightmare a number of years ago at my last house when migrating from BT to Sky and was left without broadband for a week and a phone line for 3 weeks during that transition, though I hope things are better these days).

I wondered if someone had lived through this rare FTTC to FTTP scenario and had had a good experience... !
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Thu 30-Nov-17 19:23:05
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
Agreed, when they was installing our FTTP we were still using our ADSL2+ Connection, it was only once it was all complete where we had to swap the Smart Hub over to the new connection was when we lost connection.

So we lost our connection for about 90 seconds if that in the swap over.

Then 5 days later FVA was activated to which I had / was told to swap the old copper line to the new FVA cable into the NTE5A Master Socket.

So overall it was a sort of seamless transition from copper to fibre.

Paul


Thanks - that is reassuring!
Standard User witchunt
(committed) Fri 01-Dec-17 09:23:20
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
I think the only real concern you might have is the actual FTTP works accidentally knocking your FTTC connection off. This is a small concern and is unlikely to happen. The order systems are well able to cope with an existing broadband connection and an FTTP order.
Standard User AndyHCZ
(experienced) Fri 01-Dec-17 10:10:18
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
I can see more issues with human error as there's no system process for FTTC > FTTP. I would hope BT Retail don't cease the FTTC service until the FTTP service is up and running.
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Fri 08-Dec-17 10:30:26
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
I can see more issues with human error as there's no system process for FTTC > FTTP. I would hope BT Retail don't cease the FTTC service until the FTTP service is up and running.


To follow up, I finally managed to order FTTP after getting the run around a few times...

Openreach surveyed our property yesterday and I signed the permissions for them to dig on our property.

FTTC is still up-and-running, so as long as the duct laying doesn't wipe out our existing cooper line (and it shouldn't as we know the precise line it takes on our property as it was dug up during previous building works and reburied) we are looking good for a smooth transition. Phew!

Told to expect the duct laying within a couple of weeks, so might, just might, be good for xmas.

Current service date is 21st December, but this relies on the duct being in place in time...

Simon
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Fri 05-Jan-18 10:03:09
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
I thought it was time to post an update.

No FTTP connection yet but my FTTC is still working! The 3 days it took over xmas for my son's xbox to update and download it's bundled game means FTTP can't come a moment too soon....

On the 14th December, BT pushed back the live date from the 21st December to none given, saying they needed to wait for a survey (yet the survey had been done a week earlier). Just a promised status update by the 14th January.

The duct works to the house were carried out - very neatly - by openreach on the 2nd/3rd January without notice (no notice expected directly, but they didn't even appear on roadworks.org until after they'd started).

So it appears i'm only now waiting on BT to call to arrange an appointment, on behalf of openreach, for a 1-stage install of the fibre and ONT.

Simon
Standard User oldskool
(member) Mon 08-Jan-18 23:40:18
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
Surely they need to relax the planning laws if they want faster uptake.

Plus I suspect the Xbox updates were slow due to the severe loads on the MS side and nothing to do with your own connection.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Tue 09-Jan-18 03:35:57
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: oldskool] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oldskool:
Surely they need to relax the planning laws if they want faster uptake.

Plus I suspect the Xbox updates were slow due to the severe loads on the MS side and nothing to do with your own connection.

Agreed, but then again M$ and Sony's network is hit and miss, you can see this when you do speed tests on them, I normally range from 100Mbps to 310Mbps on both consoles.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 312.47 Mbps (down), 29.78 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Tue 09-Jan-18 09:37:47
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In reply to a post by oldskool:
Surely they need to relax the planning laws if they want faster uptake.

Plus I suspect the Xbox updates were slow due to the severe loads on the MS side and nothing to do with your own connection.

Agreed, but then again M$ and Sony's network is hit and miss, you can see this when you do speed tests on them, I normally range from 100Mbps to 310Mbps on both consoles.

Paul


I'd hope people with super/ultra-fast broadband were able to download at more than the 2.5mbps that we saw as an average over 3 days even during the the peak xmas loads...

There are now 3 properties in my close ducted to the premises and ready to go, so i'm hoping OR come and run the final fibre to our properties as a group of work soon...

The houses on the main road that are included in this mini FTTP rollout are fed over ground. A few of these houses are waiting for an existing pole to be replaced as (so they were told by the OR installer who came to connection them) it is deemed 10cm too short to run fibre over a shared driveway at a suitable height...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 09-Jan-18 15:44:52
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
Remember when you get access to full fibre you are removing the local bottle neck, if a popular service is busy you having a fast connection will not help...

i.e. if Xbox Live/PSN download servers are busy then they will likely be slow for lots of people.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Tue 09-Jan-18 17:20:59
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Remember when you get access to full fibre you are removing the local bottle neck, if a popular service is busy you having a fast connection will not help...

i.e. if Xbox Live/PSN download servers are busy then they will likely be slow for lots of people.

I fully agree.

I see this a lot, but not on everything, Steam I see the full connection being used until my drive is at 100 active time which is when it stops downloading, Xbox Live and PSN are like I said hit and miss, might also be due to the speed of the drive in the consoles and the actual content being downloaded.

Also downloading loads of very small files also slows down the download due to once again the slow drive (open / create new file and save content then close) which takes time.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 312.47 Mbps (down), 29.78 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Tue 09-Jan-18 17:43:08
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Remember when you get access to full fibre you are removing the local bottle neck, if a popular service is busy you having a fast connection will not help...

i.e. if Xbox Live/PSN download servers are busy then they will likely be slow for lots of people.


That is understood.

The xbox thing was just an observation about how slow and how fed up I am with my lousy connection. Even today the xbox detailed network statistics test reports 2.31Mbps download speed, 0.21Mbps upload, and 90ms latency... That is on a wired connection too, not WiFi (house is fully cat6 wired).

Biggest change i'm looking forward to is being able to make VOIP calls (ok, I reserve 0.5Mbps of bandwidth for this today) / receive email / surf the web / whilst my son watches youtube. And upload large PDFs for print much more quickly...
Standard User brandscill
(experienced) Wed 10-Jan-18 19:53:22
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Frequently see issues with the Sony network, normally pretty solid with M$

BT - 52/10
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Jan-18 21:36:01
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: brandscill] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by brandscill:
Frequently see issues with the Sony network, normally pretty solid with M$

I see it on both PS4 and Xbox, but I have a 310Mbit connection so I will see more issues.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 312.47 Mbps (down), 29.78 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
Standard User SJHambly
(newbie) Sat 03-Feb-18 08:57:21
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
The install completed on the 29th January, as had been promised.

As a single stage install there was no external CSP, and the fibre was routed through the wall to enter the house behind the new all-on-one ONT (BB and ONT sit inside a plastic enclosure which hides the majority of the cabling mess). The master socket was prepared for FVA at the same time.

The 'circuit' didn't build automatically so on powering up the ONT the Openreach technician was faced with a flashing light that wouldn't go solid. A phone call, and 20 minutes later, the 'circuit' had been built manually, the light went solid, and the broadband was good to go.

I had initial problems replacing the BT smartHub with my EdgeRouter setup (which had been working fine for months connecting to a VDSL modem via PPPoE to a BT retail service) but this had disappeared when I tried it 24 hours later. I wonder how long a circuit build takes to fully propagate through the OR network? (I looked like I was suffering from MTU induced packet loss of HTTPS traffic).

I'd recently recontracted to 18 months of Infinity Unlimited so am limited to modest speeds at present. But still significantly faster than before!

No idea what has happened with the VDSL circuit as the OR technician took my NTE5 faceplate away!
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Feb-18 10:22:53
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Re: Migrating from FTTC to FTTP


[re: SJHambly] [link to this post]
 
Nice and Gratz smile

Due to our FVA not going live in time of the internal install the engineer just created the cable and connected it to the ONT phone port and tacked it to the wall.

They also told me when the FVA goes live to just remove the old copper line from the Master Socket and connect up the new FVA Cable to it.

So I terminated the old copper line back to the BT80 Junction box, I think the reason why BT didn't care I terminated the old copper line due to I will be using the FVA now on anyhow plus the line of work I use to do as well a while back.

But yeah I am still using the old NTE5A Master Socket with just the lower phone faceplate, so it doesn't stick out as much as it did before.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 303.03 Mbps (down), 31.71 Mbps (up) FVA
TBB Speedtest | Ookla Speedtest | Linksys WRT 3200 ACM (BQM)
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