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Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-Mar-11 16:57:18
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Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


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When did BT engineers call out fees change? Iíve never had to pay anything because on both occasions they visited (2005 and 2006) they located a line or exchange issue. An engineer is coming to me on Monday. The upfront charge is £230 + VAT. If a fault is detected Iíll be refunded a mere £95 + VAT.

______________________________________
IDNet

Sync: Was 8128 / 896 + kbps; now interleaved at 8096/896 kbps
IP Profile was 7150 kbps; now 7000 kbps
SNR Margin: 15-12.5 dB
Line Attenuation: 20.0 dB
SpeedTouch 585

I am approximately 930 metres from the exchange (straight line distance)
Standard User andygegg
(newbie) Thu 17-Mar-11 18:01:19
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
I had an engineer out a few weeks ago (about a month) because the BB connection kept dying. No charge was made.
Standard User Rockh
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Mar-11 18:52:24
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
Provided the fault is on the BT network you won't pay anything, it's only if a fault is found on your setup that you'll incur charges. They don't charge upfront, it's retrospective, you just have to be told that there will be a charge etc.

Dave


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Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Mar-11 20:49:35
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
Hope this isn't the new norm. I had a voice fault a few months back, no charge.

Tim
ZeN & freenetname
recapped ST546v6 on 8 Meg Active
Check my bad boy speeds out on ZeN
Standard User Rockh
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Mar-11 21:21:50
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately BTOR has to earn money from somewhere.
Had a fault on the pole which feeds my house after the snow, one of the neighbours reported their line and quite a few of us soon after. Everyone of us has commented on one of the first lines from the BTOR eng, you may be charged etc etc. You'd think BT would be able to tell when the bulk of the consumers fed from one pole complain and consolidate the faults rather than multiple ones with different staff.

I have to admit that in the 20 odd years I've dealt with BTOR through work they cause more headaches now than they ever have.

Dave
Standard User GeeTee
(member) Thu 17-Mar-11 22:56:01
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
That's really a question to pose to your service provider.

Openreach's charges are publically available here:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricin...

No substantial changes since 2009.

In a repair scenario Openreach (OR) levy charges onto the service provider (SP) if the fault is proved not to be on their network i.e. not on the copper line and associated exchange jumpering. So a fault caused by something in the end user premises or by the SP's equipment in the exchange would be chargeable. If the SP elects to arrange an OR engineer visit to their end user's premises then it can get expensive if the fault is not an OR responsibility fault.

Choosing to send an OR engineer is the SP's choice.

SP's pass on these charges to customers as they see fit.

As stated elsewhere in this thread, if OR find a fault on their infrastructure then no charge is levied on the SP, unless the SP has requested an engineer visit outside the constraints of the agreed service contract (e.g. expedited out of hours visit for a standard care circuit).

The charging structure is quite complicated depending on what product and service level the SP is paying OR for. I'm not aware of any scenario where OR requires an upfront payment.

Care to elaborate on who your supplier is, what product (voice / dsl / something else) you have the fault with and the nature of the fault?
Standard User GeeTee
(member) Thu 17-Mar-11 23:07:10
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: Rockh] [link to this post]
 
BTOR doesn't cause the headaches. The way they operate is symptomatic of the position they have been forced into by the other carriers / providers and associated OFCOM regulatory meddling to open up competition. The marketing driven race for the lowest price point that dominates the residential consumer telecoms market is what has caused the headache. Or more correctly - the publics' appetite for buying products using solely price as a decision factor is what has caused the headache.

BTOR engineers have to rattle that possibly chargeable line out because it's not within Openreach's control what fees the service providers charge their customers.

What were you dealing with Openreach (part of the BT Group) for 20 years ago?
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-Mar-11 23:33:42
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: GeeTee] [link to this post]
 
I canít post the full IDNet email here but it appears that even if a fault is found by BT, I will only be refunded £95 + VAT. This leaves me will a bill of £160 (inc VAT). (This figure would go some way towards setting up a cable network.) I might try to cancel the call-out. I just donít think I can afford to retain IDNet/BT at this sort of price.

The fault is sync drops usually but not 100% of the time when phones are in use. Iíve spend 2 weeks trouble shooting the issue described here:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/idnet/3978055-what-...

Things Iíve tried:

· Use of the test socket behind the master to rule out internal wiring
· New micro-filters
· Change of router
· New router (bringing the total used to 3)
· New telephones
· Additional surge protectors

I've spent over £100 already.

Itís agreed thereís nothing further I can do but tests so far reveal nothing amiss.

______________________________________
IDNet

Sync: Was 8128 / 896 + kbps; now interleaved at 8096/896 kbps
IP Profile was 7150 kbps; now 7000 kbps
SNR Margin: 15-12.5 dB
Line Attenuation: 20.0 dB
SpeedTouch 585

I am approximately 930 metres from the exchange (straight line distance)
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-Mar-11 23:45:48
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: Rockh] [link to this post]
 
My story seems quite unusual, then:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/btsupplier/t/398200...

______________________________________
IDNet

Sync: Was 8128 / 896 + kbps; now interleaved at 8096/896 kbps
IP Profile was 7150 kbps; now 7000 kbps
SNR Margin: 15-12.5 dB
Line Attenuation: 20.0 dB
SpeedTouch 585

I am approximately 930 metres from the exchange (straight line distance)
Standard User GeeTee
(member) Fri 18-Mar-11 00:21:53
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Re: Cost of BT Engineer call-outs


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
I can't comment on IDNET's charging policy, it's up to them what they charge their customers.

Sync drop on phone usage can be attributed to 1 of 3 things in 99%+ cases:
1. Problematic end user internal cabling or high frequency interference on said cabling by other devices
2. Faulty micro-filters
3. High Resistance Disconnect fault on the copper line (a.k.a. HR Dis)

Testing from the test socket of the master socket behind the face plate rules out 1. and 2. provided:
a. an alternate / known good microfilter, rj11 and router are also tested
b. No previous occupant has wired up something to the connections in the main body of the master socket (alarm system and SKY installers of days gone by are common culprits).


The HR Dis condition is notoriously hard to diagnose without an engineer visit as it requires a double ended line test - i.e. test equipment in place in the exchange and the engineer able to plug more test equipment in to your master socket.

The single ended line test that is carried out by any exchange based test system - be that provide by BT or any other LLU operator will never achieve the same level of accuracy in this particular scenario.


What causes an HR Dis you ask? Typically a single joint on the copper between you and the exchange that is corroding due to moisture ingress. They generally get worse over time, ultimately ending in a complete loss of voice service when the corroding copper finally breaks - this can take many years. In early days they cause DSL related problems when voice calls occur due to the increased voltage on the line and the altered properties of the corroding copper modulating the voice signal up into the DSL frequency, swamping it for the duration of the call.

A good OR engineer will sort this easily with some legwork between cabinets to track it down. A not so good one will walk in, do a pair quality test, declare all is fine and leave as your dsl synchs on his test.

Wish you luck!
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