General Discussion
  >> BTwholesale DSL Implementation


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:12:27
Print Post

What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[link to this post]
 
What do you make of these ping and traceroute stats I've obtained, going from my PC to a well-known, well-used host? Would it be right for me to describe these response times (latency) as excessive? And would you say that the problem must lie on the Internet, out beyond my exchange, rather than anywhere on my actual machine?

I've been having this problem for over a week now. After the first day of erratic acquisition of my usual websites I reported it to my ISP. They maintained there was no issue but changed their mind soon after, when a number of others complained of similar. I sent them repeated pings and tracert reports and in the end they contacted BT about it - or at least, that's the story I was given. Last Monday morning my ISP told me in an e-mail that BT had found and fixed the problem. But I myself was still having the problem. It's still ongoing, and my ISP is no longer responding to any of my results or any comments from me.

I'm on ADSL (G.Dmt). Sync'ing between my Billion 8800NL router and my exchange is stable and reasonable. It's always been okay. I run both a Mac and a Windows PC on my home network and these tests from each one give similar, alarming results.

What's your candid opinion as to where the problem lies, and can BT be pressured into exploring the offending server(s) and properly solving this issue?

As far as my memory serves me, ping delays should normally lie in the range of about 20 - 30 milliseconds, not 20 times that amount! Some of the hop delays below are amounting to 600 milliseconds or more.

Obviously, I've tried all the usual things, like clearing caches and cookies from the respective browsers.

Would or could G.dmt operation give these results if my ISP has got me on ADSL2/+ instead?

C:\>ping http://www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging http://www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.66] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=331ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=385ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=388ms TTL=55

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.66:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 331ms, Maximum = 388ms, Average = 360ms

C:\>tracert http://www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to http://www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.66]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 432 ms 435 ms 433 ms 109.109.190.129
3 404 ms 395 ms 460 ms edge.td.vispa.net.uk [83.217.160.11]
4 564 ms 463 ms 602 ms te-8-3-203.car2.Manchester1.Level3.net [195.50.1
21.233]
5 462 ms 481 ms 480 ms ae-231-3607.edge4.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.2
5]
6 464 ms 464 ms 425 ms BBC-TECHNOL.edge4.London1.Level3.net [212.113.14
.222]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 304 ms 288 ms 261 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
9 280 ms 284 ms 261 ms 132.185.255.149
10 282 ms 266 ms 332 ms bbc-vip111.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.66]

Trace complete.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:43:23
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
If latency is good between 7am and 8am then it will be congestion most likely and not uour connection.

A number of providers have seen issues since windows 10 was available for download

As wholesale network is invisible pinning blame to any point is difficult. Comparing notes with others on isp is a good way to see if just you or an isp wide issue

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:55:23
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hop 2 is Vispa, so I wonder if they have their own low-capacity WBMC or IPSC feed?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 12-Aug-15 14:56:27)


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 15:47:42
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I did mention the Windows 10 scenario to my ISP (Vispa), the first time I contacted them about the high latency. I'd seen the article about Windows 10 on this website. As I recall, downloads had raised latency times to as much as 40 milliseconds. But that's way, way different to the kinds of figures I'M getting. A whole week's gone by anyway and, if anything, my latency figures have increased; you'd expect them to decrease eventually, once the Windows 10 rush were over, so clearly it's nothing to do with that.

Comparing notes with others using the same ISP isn't possible in my case because I know of nobody local to me who uses Vispa. The only opportunity for comparing these results would be if Vispa users in this locale were experiencing the same problem and were to post on thinkbroadband.com. (As it happens, after the second day Vispa told me they'd had a spate of similar complaints about latency but they were not in a position to tell me where those particular users were situated. All they said was that they were 'in a different part of the country to themselves').

If a problem's being caused by a 'gateway server', on the Internet side of my exchange, then the fault may well be localised, causing perhaps only a limited number of users to complain.

Addendum: Incidentally, during last week (during daylight hours) there were times when I was completely unable to acquire a website frequently used by me. It happened on different days and with different websites. I'd wait for as much as 1 or 2 minutes for a response but would then give up and visit some other website instead. And on some traceroutes last week, the trace would time out at a particular server and so would never complete. Everything just became flakey.

Edited by meditator (Wed 12-Aug-15 16:09:08)

Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 15:51:46
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
'Low-capacity WBMC or IPSC feed'? Please explain. Are you suggesting that my ISP is deliberately, or unintentionally, slowing things down?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 16:57:39
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
No. I'm suggesting they may not have huge throughput capacity between the BTW Cloud and their first router (hop 2). They aren't a huge ISP and aren't hugely rich.

Seeing any trend in their accounts is difficult, as they seem to have reorganised things a year or so ago, so all I can see is the April 2014 ones. April 2015 are due to be submitted by 31/1/16.

You say you are on G.DMT. Do you mean only ADSL Max is available at your exchange? Which exchange is it please?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 17:15:24
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
We have a BQM tool that monitors connections and of the 10 from Vispa users 8 out of the 10 look to have congestion that follows a relatively common pattern suggesting ISP capacity is the issue - not total proof but ratio of good to bad is higher than I'd normally expect.

BQM tracks latency over time, so we see people returning to a vague normal level at 3am to 4am, but other wise pings are all over the place from standard 20 to 25 up to 80 to 140ms or more.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 20:05:18
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No, what I'm saying is that all ADSL modes, and FTTC for that matter, are available but due to me being on a long copper line all the way to the exchange anything above an 8M bps service works out in fact worse than staying with the lower speed service. It's accepted wisdom that that can happen beyond a certain line length. I tested out my line for that .. oh .. 2 or 3 years ago now and confirmed I was slightly better off on the 8M bps one. I sync at about 4.3M bps. It's just that I've been wondering whether the ISP has recently put me on ADSL2 and whether, in terms of latency, that's had a terrible effect. Sync speed hasn't changed.

The exchange is Molesey (SW London).

The ISP's immediate reaction when I told them about the poor response/long latencies more than a week ago now was for them to reset my profile at the exchange. This was a daft thing to do in my view. I hadn't asked them to change anything about my connection profile, and none of the evidence was pointing toward a problem with my router or my computers.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 20:26:32
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've been with Vispa for several years now and up until just over a week ago I never noticed any poor responses (long latencies). But when it became visibly slow last week I decided to run some pings and traceroutes and realised that the response times were inordinately long.

In fact, the ISP always makes a big song-and-dance about how well they manage their own services. But with it recently getting to the point where, at even mid-afternoon, I've had to abandon visiting Amazon and the like because I wait and wait ... for minutes ... and I never get the site, it justy gets stupid. But then 10 mins later I try again and its fine.

With one site that I commonly visit, I'm currently having to wait about 17 seconds before literally all elements of the homepage actually get to screen.

This is just totally unacceptable, in my view.

BTW, earlier today I was asking for advice about this (from the router point of view) on Billion's forum and I submitted to the forum a set of results I'd taken, only a few minutes earlier. One respondent quickly ran his own to the BBC website and he was getting latencies of just 17 milliseconds. So, IMHO this isn't a contention issue, at least not at or around the BBC website itself.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 23:17:20
Print Post

Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
We can see from your tracert it is at or before Hop 2. The ones after are therefore affected by that. (A high ping in a tracert in the middle of low pings just means the relevant router had/has better things to do than respond immediately to pings. A high ping at a hop which then is maintained from there onwards means that router is probably congested).

Re the ADSL Max, I think we can conclude you are on WBMC rather than IPStream Connect. As the first hop (2) you see is Vispa I thik my theory stands a good chance of being right.

What happens if you do a tracert to the Beeb now? Or 8am. Times like that, compared to say 6pm.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to