General Discussion
  >> BTwholesale DSL Implementation


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 14:19:07
Print Post

BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[link to this post]
 
My dad has had issues with his broadband for several months now, after trying 3 different routers, and filters into the test socket, we finally felt that it was time to get an engineer in.

The engineer was booked and he spent an hour at the premises, he checked the line and he said it was balanced fine, so there was no fault there, then he admitted he didn't know what was causing the dropouts, he then called talktalk to get details on the number of dropouts and when they were happening, he changed the faceplate, for no real reason, then said he was gong to change the pair on the e side of the cabinet. Since then the problem appears to have been cured but they have now raised a charge with my ISP for an SFI visit, stating that no fault found.

I'm going to assume this isn't exactly uncommon? Why are they trying to charge me 156+VAT for their issue??

I went through months of trying different routers to avoid this ridiculous charge!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 27-Sep-16 15:13:37
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Probably because the code system is not nuanced enough to convey what provider did, in which case appeal and ensure a concise account of what the engineer did is passed back up the chain by TalkTalk.

Presume this was ADSL2+, since changing an E side is unlikely to affect VDSL2.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 15:15:34
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Correct, ADSL2+.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 17:27:44
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
The engineer will have reported it back as "no fault found" from the sounds of it.

Here TalkTalk will charge by default:

https://help2.talktalk.co.uk/engineer-charges look under openreach visit.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 17:31:10
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
This is the issue, how can he change the e-side and then deem there to be no fault found? Why would he start changing random things?


What isn't chargeable

Where the cause of the fault lies entirely on the Openreach network outside the customer's property/garden area

Where the cause of the fault is in the exchange on either the Openreach or TalkTalk equipment within the exchange.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 17:50:47
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
This is the issue, how can he change the e-side and then deem there to be no fault found? Why would he start changing random things?


What isn't chargeable

Where the cause of the fault lies entirely on the Openreach network outside the customer's property/garden area

Where the cause of the fault is in the exchange on either the Openreach or TalkTalk equipment within the exchange.
E side is BT openreach's remit so not chargeable
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 27-Sep-16 18:15:43
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Hence the anomaly, i.e. on the booked work no fault found, but just in case swapped the E side but showed nothing different in their testing probably, but might have ended up working better for ADSL2+ long term.

Oddly SFI charging is a result of the pressure on costs arising from creation of Openreach i.e. need to attribute engineer time to the right sections etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Tue 27-Sep-16 19:02:25
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
seems to be talking about the same thing or very similar, time tt challenged these fees

Rev K
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 28-Sep-16 00:29:42
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Hence the anomaly, i.e. on the booked work no fault found, but just in case swapped the E side but showed nothing different in their testing probably, but might have ended up working better for ADSL2+ long term.

Oddly SFI charging is a result of the pressure on costs arising from creation of Openreach i.e. need to attribute engineer time to the right sections etc
line wasn't retested after e-side pair swap, he never returned to the property.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 28-Sep-16 16:28:25
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
So it's still going off and I've noticed that when the broadband drops, so does the dial tone, there is then a crackling and the dial tone comes back on and broadband begins to reconnect, any ideas?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 28-Sep-16 17:03:33
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
If does this when using the test socket and no other phone sockets work then probably a High Resistance (HR) fault on the line. Traditionally problematic to identify until so bad the line fails totally

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 22-Nov-16 11:04:00
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
2 months on, 3 engineer visits later and finally we are told there is an earth leakage on the line? Oddly the voice side of the line is perfectly fine.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 23-Nov-16 20:08:11
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
and finally we are told there is an earth leakage on the line?

Was the engineer using a JDSU or Exfo tester ? There has been a big update to the JDSU this week, and ever since I have seen some odd pair quality test results, many showing what it interprets as an earth contact/low insulation.

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Thu 08-Dec-16 13:29:30
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
This is still ongoing, 6 or 7 engineers have been out now - I've lost count.

Everything bar the D-side has been changed but they can't change it because there's no spare capacity.

The broadband seems to be fine if there's only relatively little traffic, but as soon as you start to stream, it can knock it off.

This is on different routers too so its not like its the router crashing.

Is this behaviour even possible? I thought once a sync was established, it didn't matter how much traffic was put over it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 09-Dec-16 12:01:26
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Very much a case of monitoring the error rates shown by the modem and see if these start to rise just before the modem gives up and resyncs.

Modems will hang onto a poor line when their is very little traffic as it can deliver the small amounts and tolerate the errors.

This may be a scenario where using different modems where the way they handle errors is treated differently i.e. some drop the line and resync at the drop of a hate, whereas others tolerate errors for longer allowing you to get stuff done even if speeds are curtailed slightly.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 21-Dec-16 14:08:23
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Lost count how many engineers we have had now but I emailed the CEO of Openreach which made them perk up and send out their top engineers including the regional specialist.

The verdict is, after fixing various minor faults, that the issue is REINS, the engineer has checked in the House but cannot find any sources of interference so they problem must lie outside the property somewhere and there's nothing they can really do.

There's also no gaurantee that switching to fibre will cure it because they don't know if the REINS issue lies on the E or D side.

So all that can be done is to tweak the Fritzbox settings and dial down the margin in an attempt to stabilise the line.
Standard User richi
(regular) Fri 10-Feb-17 11:37:43
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I’m late to the party here.
In reply to a post by PiKe:
The verdict is, after fixing various minor faults, that the issue is REINS
Interesting, but earlier you said…

In reply to a post by PiKe:
when the broadband drops, so does the dial tone
That doesn’t sound like REINS to me. You mentioned TalkTalk, so I assume you’re on LLU. Have the engineers tried replacing the tie pair? I had a similar issue, which dragged on for months and countless engineer callouts. Finally an SFI guy brushed past the frame where my tie pair was and “the errors shot up,” as he put it. A quick swap and… perfection.

3 km line on THTG: 19/1.2 Mb/s with Sky
Previously: BT ISDN, Nildram, Plusnet, 186k, EFH, Be*, Plusnet (again), Pulse8
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Fri 10-Feb-17 13:08:01
Print Post

Re: BT Trying to raise a charge for an SFI engineer


[re: richi] [link to this post]
 
Multiple issues were present it seems.

Its been fixed now by powering the router through a UPS.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to