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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 11:18:30
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quiet in here


[link to this post]
 
i thought there would be more posts in here, I have got myself a Panasonic G80 camera, very nice it is as well, still finding my way around it, also got myself a copy of Serif Affinity photo, what a great bit of software, i think it is up there with Photoshop for a lot less money.
Now all I have to do is go out and take some photos, thinking of going to photography lessons in January.

Adrian

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:17:12
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I think most would use more specialist forums. I have a few cameras for various styles of shooting but generally only really do photos when on holiday these days so wouldn't have much to say. I took my new Panasonic FZ2000 on holiday this year that has a good zoom and a 1" sensor and it worked well - apart from it being far too easy to accidentally change settings through the buttons and touch screen, never had that problem on point and shoot or SLRs before.
Standard User kebabselector
(member) Thu 28-Sep-17 14:35:39
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I keep looking at Affinity Photo, but waiting for Serif to get their long awaited version of Lightroom working as that's is whats keeping me subscribing to Adobe.

Anyway, enjoy your photography - I need to get out a bit more and shoot a bit more.

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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Sep-17 16:26:31
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Now all I have to do is go out and take some photos...


Always put the camera back to auto after you have shot some subjects or scenes - a few times I've missed some shots because the camera was still in manual mode and i needed to take an unexpected picture very quickly. One example was a Manx cat carrying a rabbit in it's mouth jumping up onto a wall, I didn't have time to reset the manual settings before pressing the shutter and unfortunately the photo was unusable frown
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:09:37
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Re: quiet in here


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
I think most would use more specialist forums. I have a few cameras for various styles of shooting but generally only really do photos when on holiday these days so wouldn't have much to say. I took my new Panasonic FZ2000 on holiday this year that has a good zoom and a 1" sensor and it worked well - apart from it being far too easy to accidentally change settings through the buttons and touch screen, never had that problem on point and shoot or SLRs before.



This is the first camera I have had with changable lens, it is not a DSLR as such it is an mirrorless camera. I got it more for video than photography, but since it can do both I may as well use it for both.
plenty of buttons on it and yes it is easy to change a setting, never had that problem with my video camera.,

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 10 pro, reluctantly, laptop by Linux

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:15:22
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Re: quiet in here


[re: kebabselector] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kebabselector:
I keep looking at Affinity Photo, but waiting for Serif to get their long awaited version of Lightroom working as that's is whats keeping me subscribing to Adobe.

Anyway, enjoy your photography - I need to get out a bit more and shoot a bit more.


Affinity photo is amazing and so is their designer software. A friend of mine does graphic design for a living and use Photoshop and illustrator and she said that both of Serif software is fantastic. There are a couple of flaws with affinity designer, one is that it keeps making layers when she do not want to. She said that she thinks Adobe have got a fight on their hand, but she will keep using Adobe for a while anyway.

I did not know that Serif was bringing out a version of lightroom? that would be really good.

I need to get out and do some photography, I am considering going to night class next year at our local college. i know the basics anyway as I do video, but this is a different ball game as I have more control over things like aperture

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 10 pro, reluctantly, laptop by Linux

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Sep-17 21:16:25
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Always put the camera back to auto after you have shot some subjects or scenes - a few times I've missed some shots because the camera was still in manual mode and i needed to take an unexpected picture very quickly. One example was a Manx cat carrying a rabbit in it's mouth jumping up onto a wall, I didn't have time to reset the manual settings before pressing the shutter and unfortunately the photo was unusable frown



Now that is a good tip, I made that mistake with my camcorder, put it in manual mode and missed a couple of things over the years.

Adrian

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Standard User neo_wales
(regular) Sun 01-Oct-17 21:17:12
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Daft as it may sound, don't forget to clean you lens, a simple thing to do but often simply overlooked.

Robert
South Wales UK
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Standard User redriff
(newbie) Mon 04-Dec-17 05:58:36
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
This is an oldish thread I know, but I'd never heard of Affinity until reading this. It certainly is excellent. As another poster has said , it would be good if they had an equivalent of Lightroom. Hope you're getting on with your camera
Standard User longedge
(committed) Mon 04-Dec-17 14:01:28
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Re: quiet in here


[re: redriff] [link to this post]
 
I've recently treated myself to a Wacom Intuos Pro Large tablet together with Affinity Designer and Photo. Steep learning curve ahead but it'll keep me out of mischief through the winter. Serif have a really good series of tutorials on Vimeo. I could really do with winding the clock back 30 or 40 years for my grey cells though to help me remeber what I've been watching 8^).

Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 04-Dec-17 15:31:09
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Re: quiet in here


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
I could really do with winding the clock back 30 or 40 years for my grey cells though to help me remeber what I've been watching 8^).
Friend of mine had a similar problem- he took a series of screen grabs at useful points during the video and used them as a sort of crib sheet.

Worked for him, might be worth a try.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 17-Dec-17 10:27:06
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Re: quiet in here


[re: redriff] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by redriff:
This is an oldish thread I know, but I'd never heard of Affinity until reading this. It certainly is excellent. As another poster has said , it would be good if they had an equivalent of Lightroom. Hope you're getting on with your camera


I have not had much time to use it at the moment, but in the summer i will use it more, I will make time. I have used it more as a video camera than a photo camera, it is a great video camera, whihc is the main reason i got it for.

Affinity is good, even a friend of mine who uses photoshop likes it and Affinty designer which is vector graphics.

She said it needs something like light room.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 17-Dec-17 10:39:51
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Re: quiet in here


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
I've recently treated myself to a Wacom Intuos Pro Large tablet together with Affinity Designer and Photo. Steep learning curve ahead but it'll keep me out of mischief through the winter. Serif have a really good series of tutorials on Vimeo. I could really do with winding the clock back 30 or 40 years for my grey cells though to help me remeber what I've been watching 8^).


I know that feeling, trying to learn some 3D stuff as well and that is just as bad. I have a Wacom Intuis phto, which is only a small tablet, but seems ok, but my friends cintiq is easier to use, I suppose because it is like a touch screen and it is like drawing on a bit of paper, where on the Intuis, your eyes are looking at the screen and you are drawing on a pad on the table.

i need to do more to be honest, but keep getting distracted and with work the way it is at the moment, I am shattered when I come home.

Some good tutorials for things on you Tube.

Adrian

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Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 17-Dec-17 14:09:39
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Re: quiet in here


[re: kebabselector] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kebabselector:
I keep looking at Affinity Photo, but waiting for Serif to get their long awaited version of Lightroom working as that's is whats keeping me subscribing to Adobe.

Anyway, enjoy your photography - I need to get out a bit more and shoot a bit more.


I\ve got lightroom and it was free.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 17-Dec-17 19:07:19
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Re: quiet in here


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
A camera can not capture a moment in time only a duration of time (due to shutter speed.) An instant, or a moment, can not be captured because it has no duration (even the fastest shutter speed imaginable can not capture it.)

Since a moment can not be captured (or perceived) it can not be objectively established. "Now" is only an abstract expression based on the notions of past and future.

When the camera shutter is opened it's anticipating the future and when it's closed the past has been recorded (into memory in the case of digital cameras.) Thus into a single image a duration of time has been captured. (A good example of this is when a slow shutter speed is used and a moving object appears blurred due to it's movement across the frame during the period in which the shutter was open.) Such a statement seems obvious but the implications are quite profound.

Is a person's perception of a moving object just a matter of memory only? If a moment has no duration then movement of an object can not happen in the "present". Perhaps only the memory of it's past positions, relative to the observer, allow the object to appear to move. However since there are no conceivable past moments of perception (since moments don't exist) how can that add up to the continuum of movement?

Food for thought perhaps in this "quiet in here" thread smile

Edited by 4M2 (Sun 17-Dec-17 20:11:35)

Standard User longedge
(committed) Sun 17-Dec-17 23:08:32
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Food for thought perhaps in this "quiet in here" thread smile


More like one of the loops in Deep Thought's warm up before tackling the real question 8^)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Dec-17 01:54:12
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Re: quiet in here


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Food for thought perhaps in this "quiet in here" thread smile


More like one of the loops in Deep Thought's warm up before tackling the real question 8^)


Perhaps it's the transition from the "warm up" to "tackling the real question" that is actually the nature of the real question? If one considers the transition from before to after to be without a pause, having no duration, in a situation then that transition does not exist.

One can apply that to the camera shutter also, those are the changes from shut to open and from open to shut. One can either observe it open (that being when the exposure is started) or shut (that being when the exposure ends) but the opening and shutting is only relative to the shutter's past state. The transitional states of becoming open and becoming closed are unobservable, either the shutter is open and allows light in to the sensor or closed and allows no light into the sensor, there is no transitional period where there is both no light and light reaching the sensor. The notions of half light, half dark or degrees of lightness/darkness are unacceptable smile
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 07:48:11
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
A camera can not capture a moment in time only a duration of time (due to shutter speed.) An instant, or a moment, can not be captured because it has no duration (even the fastest shutter speed imaginable can not capture it.)
.
.
.
Is a person's perception of a moving object just a matter of memory only? If a moment has no duration then movement of an object can not happen in the "present". Perhaps only the memory of it's past positions, relative to the observer, allow the object to appear to move. However since there are no conceivable past moments of perception (since moments don't exist) how can that add up to the continuum of movement?
For a shutter to open and close the blades (or blinds) have to move so, philosophically, you have a bit of a problem...

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

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Edited by billford (Mon 18-Dec-17 07:51:31)

Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 08:07:48
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
there is no transitional period where there is both no light and light reaching the sensor.
The sensor is not a point in space (whether a film or a CCD it has an area) and the shutter does not instantaneously switch between open and closed states. So half lit and half unlit is a transitional state.

You could film the operation of an "ordinary" camera, using a higher speed one, and easily see this transition. And, in principle although not in practice, this can be repeated forever using higher and higher speed systems. (This doesn't apply to electronic shutters as there is no visible change between "open" and "shut", but even they have rise and fall times which can be measured)

The practical difficulties of going from "very short periods" to "points in time" (mathematical instants) is why Newton and Leibniz invented differential calculus tongue

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

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Edited by billford (Mon 18-Dec-17 08:18:14)

Standard User longedge
(committed) Mon 18-Dec-17 15:13:21
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Re: quiet in here


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
This reminds me of my brother-in-law's favourite topic when he's had a pint more than his quota. "What if you are born in the moment between 23:59 hrs and 00:00 hrs" - I usually end up ignoring him 8^)

Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 15:31:14
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Re: quiet in here


[re: longedge] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by longedge:
"What if you are born in the moment between 23:59 hrs and 00:00 hrs"
Next time, ask him when your birthday is if your head pops out just before midnight and your feet come out just after midnight tongue

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Dec-17 16:50:21
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Re: quiet in here


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
For a shutter to open and close the blades (or blinds) have to move so, philosophically, you have a bit of a problem...


Indeed: when does non-movement become movement or movement become non-movement?

In the case of the opening shutter (the object in question) one could say a force applied to the non-moving object causes it to move and thus the object is dependant on something other than itself for it's activity. However despite the application of a force the beginning of it's movement can not happen when it's not moving, i.e. in a static state - a non-mover, nor can the movement begin when it's moving, i.e. a mover on the path that it will follow in the future - both obviously impossible. One could say that it begins moving in an instantaneous moment following the application of a force but unfortunately such an instantaneous moment does not exist since it has no duration.
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 17:26:23
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Indeed: when does non-movement become movement
When kinetic energy becomes non-zero.
or movement become non-movement?
When kinetic energy becomes zero.
In reply to a post by 4M2:
However despite the application of a force the beginning of it's movement can not happen when it's not moving, i.e. in a static state - a non-mover, nor can the movement begin when it's moving, i.e. a mover on the path that it will follow in the future - both obviously impossible.
Rubbish.
One could say that it begins moving in an instantaneous moment following the application of a force but unfortunately such an instantaneous moment does not exist since it has no duration.
Rubbish squared.


eta- go away and study some physics, and the basis of differential calculus wouldn't hurt either. If you prefer philosophy, stick to dancing angels and heads of pins tongue

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Mon 18-Dec-17 17:37:46)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Dec-17 17:41:34
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Re: quiet in here


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
You could film the operation of an "ordinary" camera, using a higher speed one, and easily see this transition. And, in principle although not in practice, this can be repeated forever using higher and higher speed systems.


If I understand you correctly that would ultimately require an infinitely fast system to capture an event that has an infinity short duration and that would take for ever (eternity) to achieve with such progressively "higher speed systems"? Perhaps that could be rephrased as it will take for ever (eternity) to realise zero time...certainly impractical and definitely impossible.
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 18:10:02
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I think you're getting confused between what a system is doing (eg the position and momentum of a moving body) and the precision with which you can measure what its doing (where it is and how fast it's going).

Essentially, the indeterminacy (uncertainty) principle.

It may be possible to predict or deduce those two variables to a high degree of accuracy, but if you try to measure them then the more accurately you know one of them the less idea you have about the other. In the limit, if you could measure exactly the position of a moving body you would have absolutely no idea how fast it was going or in which direction. This doesn't mean that either its position or velocity didn't have very precise values, just that you can't accurately measure them both.

It's too near my dinnertime to type out an explanation, have a read.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 18-Dec-17 19:35:00
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Re: quiet in here


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
I think you're getting confused between what a system is doing (eg the position and momentum of a moving body) and the precision with which you can measure what its doing (where it is and how fast it's going).

Essentially, the indeterminacy (uncertainty) principle.

It's too near my dinnertime to type out an explanation, have a read.


Thanks for your very informative replies and I will certainly seriously consider your suggestions, however I have a problem with the notion of what constitutes a body either moving or not moving. Is such an object composed of a collection of immutable extremely small particles? If it is then such particles (the building blocks of what we call "matter") must have dimensions in order to differentiate them from mere open space which is dimensionless. Since such particles have dimensions that means they must be capable of being subdivided ad infinitum and are thus not immutable. Scientific theories about the natures of matter, space and time are articulated only provisionally so I don't think we can hold steadfast to any one particular view of reality.

Anyway this has gone too far away from a discussion about photography - I hope you enjoyed your dinner smile

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 18-Dec-17 19:38:51)

Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 18-Dec-17 20:50:03
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
Since such particles have dimensions that means they must be capable of being subdivided ad infinitum and are thus not immutable.
I think I've fallen into the trap of feeding a troll frown

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 24-Dec-17 21:23:29
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
If a tree falls in a forest are YOU an actual, living person?

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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 25-Dec-17 00:39:31
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Re: quiet in here


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
If a tree falls in a forest are YOU an actual, living person?


If I take a photograph of the tree whilst it is standing and then a fraction of a second later take another photograph of the tree whilst it is falling then during that short period I would have been living. Since it is not possible to photograph (or observe) the moment the tree begins to fall, because a moment has no duration, there can be no cognition of an actual "living" me at that same moment. Or is the cognition of a "me" (self awareness) beyond all considerations of time? A living "me" does require the concept of a continuum of time though...
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Dec-17 09:23:26
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I didn't mention photographs therefore I can only assume that you are an AI with bad programming.

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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 27-Dec-17 23:45:03
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Re: quiet in here


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
I didn't mention photographs therefore I can only assume that you are an AI with bad programming.


But you made a statement beginning: "If a tree falls in a forest..." and in the context of this thread imaginatively "picturing" such an event does perhaps make photography relevant?

Hypothetically lets say a person goes into the forest with an intention of taking some photographs of a waterfall. Initially on arrival at the site of the waterfall the person, as an observer, sees the pleasing movement of falling water within it's surroundings. Then she or he takes a photograph of the waterfall using a slow shutter speed and the resultant image (the camera's observation) may give an impression of fluidity. Next with a fast shutter speed cascading droplets of water might be captured in the resultant image (a different camera observation) giving an impression of the the drama of the event rather than the event's flowing fluidity.

So concerning your image of "...a tree falls in a forest..." this dynamic event can be appreciated both aesthetically and physically and as an analogy, in the context of this thread, photography is perhaps applicable regarding the observable qualities of moving phenomena.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 03-Jan-18 21:23:38
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Re: quiet in here


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to video the event, does it make a noise?

Thought a normal person may have grasped the idea! As I stated you must be a badly programmed AI.

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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 04-Jan-18 00:49:40
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Re: quiet in here


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to video the event, does it make a noise?

Thought a normal person may have grasped the idea! As I stated you must be a badly programmed AI.


Thank you for mentioning video (or lack of video) - obviously in the absence of a videographer, the question of whether there is or there is not a sound can not be answered since there is no recording of the event.
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