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Standard User Disc0nnected
(newbie) Tue 02-Aug-11 23:44:22
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Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable line


[link to this post]
 
Hi everyone, could really do with some help please.

Basically i think my line is very poor, at the best, as my connection is very unstable and disconnects at least 5 times a night. As it gets dark the Noise Margin falls all over the place and often drops below zero.

I was just wondering what difference the router makes to this and if it is worth spending the money on a different router or if it wont make any difference?

I have an old branded talktalk router that used to do the job quite nicely i thought until i was transferred to adsl2 [connection went to hell] and i have tried a cheapish belkin one i got but that disconnected even more. I don't really want to buy a new more expensive one unless there is a chance it will actually make any difference.


If there is a possibility a new router could make a difference can people recommend a router for a noisey and very unstable connection please? I would like to spend as little as possible but i am willing to spend more if it is necessary.


I used to think routers only made so much of a difference up to a certain point [a bit like hmdi cables] but my experience with the belkin has shown me how ignorant that viewpoint may have been.

Cheers

Edited by Disc0nnected (Wed 03-Aug-11 00:00:06)

Standard User Rockh
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 03-Aug-11 09:45:30
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
If you could post your line stats it will help. Info if you don't know how.

Dave

Edited by Rockh (Wed 03-Aug-11 18:04:42)

Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Wed 03-Aug-11 10:32:21
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Disc0nnected:
Hi everyone, could really do with some help please.

Basically i think my line is very poor, at the best, as my connection is very unstable and disconnects at least 5 times a night. As it gets dark the Noise Margin falls all over the place and often drops below zero.

I was just wondering what difference the router makes to this and if it is worth spending the money on a different router or if it wont make any difference?

If there is a possibility a new router could make a difference can people recommend a router for a noisey and very unstable connection please? I would like to spend as little as possible but i am willing to spend more if it is necessary.

I used to think routers only made so much of a difference up to a certain point [a bit like hmdi cables] but my experience with the belkin has shown me how ignorant that viewpoint may have been.

Cheers
Hi, the BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV router has a reputation for very good performance on long lines, you buy one on ebay. wink

http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/2wire_2700_HGV.htm

http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/intern...

You buy one on ebay http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570...

Easy to unlock http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGV.htm

Orange WBC 20 Meg. Sync 11864 kbps Downstream, 1189 kbps Upstream.
Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ wireless N 150 Router supplied by Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 03-Aug-11 10:35:05
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
Routers run software so are very different to a dumb cable.

How good the software is written and the ability of the hardware to carry out commands promptly is a big factor.

You may be on ADSL2 but with a lot of hardware you can force the connection mode back to ADSL.
The fact the connection is worse at night, and on ADSL2 suggests it may be an internal wiring issue, have you removed the ring wire, unused extensions, and tested for a day or so at the master sockets test socket?

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 03-Aug-11 11:41:39
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
As E7er says - a 2wire 2700HGV from ebay is a worthwhile investment.

Then with a little planning you work out when to sync the modem for best results. Just after dawn or dusk.

For example - I have recently installed one on a friends very long noisy line. His daily resyncs have gone - maybe just one a week now and te line has improved from around 700kb to near 1Mb - all from a 2700HGV.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User john2007
(legend) Wed 03-Aug-11 12:37:38
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
As Rockh said. Post your stats http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
Standard User Disc0nnected
(newbie) Wed 03-Aug-11 16:59:21
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies.

I can't select my router on that site. It's an old Talk Talk branded one, i think a Philips SNA5630/05 or SNK5630NS/05. It seemed to work fine before, until the day i was transfered to adsl2 [21cn].

Here are some stats:

Up stream: 960 Kbps
Down stream: 4544 Kbps

Noise Margin - Upstream: 11dB Downstream: 11dB

Attenuation - Upstream: 34 dB Downstream 63dB


Target snr of 12 dB

According to the samknows website i am only aprox 1.220km from the exchange.

In the day i hover around 12dB with the odd drop but then as it starts to get later in the evening it all goes to hell and starts going all over the place with disconnections as it goes below 0.



I don't really know what to do to be honest. My isp Technical support told me: "I can see that from the connection history, the connection has been unstable since the migration to
21cn. Tests on this line show that there are many errors on the downstream and that this might be due to the line length and quality."
but then told me:
"BT have carried out diagnostics and found no fault on their network in relation to the problem reported"

This would indicate to me that if i do have an engineer come out they will end up charging me. I guess i may eventually have no choice but to have an engineer come out if i want a usable connection again but for now i want to make sure the router isn't a possible factor.

I was tempted to order a Billion 7800N out of desperation last night but apart from the cost i don't even know if it would even stop the disconnections so thanks for the suggestion of the Bt thing.

I should add:

I have removed the ring wire as instructed by isp and i am currently in the test socket just to make sure again but i don't think it seems to make any difference.

Thanks for help

Edited by Disc0nnected (Wed 03-Aug-11 17:07:38)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 03-Aug-11 17:51:32
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: Disc0nnected] [link to this post]
 
63dB attenuation (i.e. 5 to 6km of actual phone cable) and 4.5Meg sync is exceptionally good.

The router may be a factor, trying different hardware is one of the things that is worth doing. 2Wire 2700's I think can be found cheaper.

A charge from the engineer visit should only be raised (if its a Openreach one) if they find the issue with your own wiring in the property.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 03-Aug-11 18:21:45
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The 12dB swing in SNR is probably the factor. That is way above what you and I know is "normal" - it suggests something is creating a lot of noise on the line - street lights, display lights or one of many other things.

A 2700 will - as I said before be a good investment as they can hold down to 0dB and below which may not cure teh drops but could reduce them


To Disc0nnected

You need to get a copy of Router Stats Lite and then set it up to monitor the sync speed and SNR - use 3000 points/graph and 1 minute updates which will be a two day plot. Post a link to the image and we can then see what is happening to your SNR and when and what teh sync speed does too. You may need to get a 2700 first if your existing router cannot be accessed.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Disc0nnected
(newbie) Wed 03-Aug-11 21:03:24
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Re: Advice for desperate n00b please? Re: noisey unstable li


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I should of said that the Belkin router actually gave different Attenuation figures than the TalkTalk/philips one does. They were approx half ie
Attenuation - Upstream: ~ 15 dB Downstream ~ 30dB

So one is giving wrong reading and maybe it is the TalkTalk one.


The way techincal support worded it to me made it sound like the engineer only doesn't charge if they find a problem with the Bt Network ie didn't mention whether or not they would check my wiring or if that was a factor in deciding if they charged or not. Again this is another thing putting me off having an engineer come round, i guess i need to clarify this as i was hoping it would be like you said.


It's interesting you should mention the street lights because i remember reading the other day something about am radio waves possibly interfering with adsl as it got darker but i have just checked and there is actually a street light right next to the telephone pole my wire is connected to. It's literally only 1-2 metres away, aiming away from pole, although i presume the acutal light beem itself may be irrelevant. I'm getting so frustrated with these disconnections now that i seriously just complicated sabotaging it to see what would happen [apart from me being arrested].

Is adsl2 [21cn] more susceptible to interference does anyone know?

Do you think Bt consider interference from street lights as something wrong with their network and whether that would show up if they came to test the line in the daytime. I bet they would say nothing is wrong.


I have routersats lite running now and i will try to get a picture up, as of 9pm tonight it's been hovering around 12dB but i suspect the fun is just about to start.

I think it makes sense to try the 2700 first then rather than spend so much on something like the Billion 7800N and have it make no difference. If the 2700 doesn't make any difference do you think that would mean it's unlikely that i am going to be able to reduce the disconnections just by getting a better router.

[i wonder if anyone has ever moved just to get a usuable internet connection]
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