Technical Discussion
  >> DSL Hardware Discussion


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


  Print Thread
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 19-May-12 15:16:47
Print Post

A few queries re the Billion 7800


[link to this post]
 
Been weighing up the pros and cons of getting a Billion 7800 and might very well order one shortly. The non-N version will be OK for me and I gather from the spaldwick website that I came across the other day that the 7800 is exactly the same as the 7800N, except for not having the wireless feature.

For me, the Billion 7800 seems to offer exactly what I need - wired Ethernet connectivity, a built-in PPPoE EWAN interface as well as an ADSL one, enabling me to use ADSL to the Internet until I get an FTTC setup. Then there's also an ability to set the line's SNR when using it in ADSL mode. In my case I'm on a long, noisy line, so that feature will be all but essential to keep the ADSL connection stable.

I'm wondering if any of you would know the answer to these queries, though:

1) With the 7800, is there any way, through its web interface, of knowing whether the ADSL line is in Fast Mode status or instead Interleaved status? I normally have to have my line set by my ISP to Interleaved, but am now wondering, in changing from my current router to this one, if I'll have any way of confirming that. Thus far, I've used the utility DMT to show this status. However, DMT can't be used with the Billion 7800. I might add that there have been several instances over recent years where changes in my ISP's network have left my connection in Fast mode rather than Interleaved, and were it not for me using DMT I'd have never been in a position each time to request them to set it back to Interleaved.

2) The spaldwick website (www.spaldwick.com/broadband/billion-7800n) gives some guidance on how to adjust the line's target SNR. However, the settings given in the spaldwick tables assume that the user always wants to tweak for a faster sync speed. But what if you want a slower sync speed, and therefore a higher SNR? Does anyone know the values you'd need to insert to go from these target SNRs?:

6dB to 9dB
6dB to 12dB
6dB to 15dB
9dB to 12dB
9dB to 15dB
12dB to 15dB

3) The 7800(N) is IPv6-ready, but is it worth using this at present? It 's been my understanding that not all browsers and not all ISPs can deliver IPv6. Is it best to stick with IPv4 for now?

Edited by meditator (Sat 19-May-12 15:23:10)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Sat 19-May-12 19:04:15
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
1) The 7800(N) can be used with DMT tool
http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=306

2) Use these values as a guide to increase/decrease your SNR:

200 = +6dB
150 = +3dB
100 = +0dB
50 = -3dB
25 = -4.5db
1 = -5.5dB

The command does not accept negative numbers. However the command can be tricked into

accepting negative numbers by entering high positive numbers.

65500 = -9dB
65480 = -9.5dB
65450 = -12dB

3) If your ISP doesn't support ipv6 then stick to ipv4.

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
Pioneer Kuro 428XD ISF'd
iPhone 4S 16gb
ThinkPad X220
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 19-May-12 23:35:36
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
babyfrog,

1) Hey, it's good news that someone's produced a customised DMT for use with this router.

2) Much obliged for those SNR values. Can I assume that a value of 350 will produce a 9dB increase? Is there some sort of formula for determining the value to use?

3) Yeh, I'll stick with IPv4.

Many thanks.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Sun 20-May-12 05:56:55
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by meditator:
Can I assume that a value of 350 will produce a 9dB increase?


I believe 250 will increase your SNR by 9db, each increment of 50 increases SNR by 3db. However there's no harm in playing around with figures to see which gives you the best result...your Billion won't go up in smoke smile

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
Pioneer Kuro 428XD ISF'd
iPhone 4S 16gb
ThinkPad X220
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 20-May-12 10:31:21
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Presumably, if that version of DMT actually works with the Billion, one could use the SNR slider in the blank tab of DMT to play around with the numbers?

Have you actually tried that DMT yourself? In the link you gave me to the Billion forum there are comments from some who've tried it that it doesn't show the downstream and upstream speeds.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Sun 20-May-12 14:45:30
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Yes, i've tried the DMT tool with my Billion 7800N and it works fine. You get sync speeds in
the first tab (info1). Not tried adjusting the SNR slider as i don't want to risk messing up
my sync speed but i imagine if you could change the SNR that way, it wouldn't store the new SNR ratio permanently in your router unlike if you change the SNR through the router GUI then this is stored permanently (survives reboots).

IMHO the only real benefit of using DMT tool with the Billion 7800(N) is to monitor line
errors, all other stats can be obtained via the routers GUI.

Also, its easy to know when you've gone from interleaving>fastpath because usually the following happens:
a) Your downstream sync speed decreases slightly
b) your pings improve

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
Pioneer Kuro 428XD ISF'd
iPhone 4S 16gb
ThinkPad X220
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 20-May-12 15:01:26
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Ah, yes, I see. Gosh, I'd have never noticed that on the RHS, had you not now pointed it out. I'm used to seeing the sync speeds shown in their boxes on the left. Any idea why that was not possible with this particular incarnation of DMT? Is it perhaps an issue being worked on by the developer? Perhaps, with it being a re-hash of the version intended for the D-Link DSL2640B, it's simply not possible to show the speeds in those normal boxes, though I can't think why?
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 23-May-12 14:02:50
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
BabyFrog,

I've got my new Billion 7800. Am using it right now. So far, so good, and the increasing of the SNR that I wanted has worked.

It came with firmware version 1.06e, which is somewhat out-of-date. I was intending to acquire and install 1.06f instead, as apparently 1.06e has one or two bugs, but I see that Billion's just issued 1.06g for 7800 and 7800N.

Any idea what the difference is between f and g? At Billion's Download section they mention something about Sky (not that Sky is of any interest to me), but if the addition of a Sky feature is the only difference between f and g, maybe all I really need is f?

I've noticed also, from the Billion website, that originally the firmware download was a zip file. However, it appears that the download now is not compressed, it's just the bare afw file. It's over 3MB, size-wise. Does this make sense to you?
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Wed 23-May-12 14:46:42
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
When updating Billion routers do not be tempted to re-install any settings from a previously stored file made with an older/different firmware. Always reset to factory defaults after the upgrade and start again from scatch.

I know it says this on the Billion site, but people insist on trying to do otherwise and it causes no end of problems for them.

A happy Billion 7402GXL user.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 23-May-12 16:21:28
Print Post

Re: A few queries re the Billion 7800


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that tip, systemx. Yeh, at the Billion website I'd noticed that the advice given for earlier firmware was to Restart the router from 'current settings' but that, for more recent firmware upgrading, to Restart it instead from the 'factory default settings' (and then presumably reconfigure the router manually from scratch).
  Print Thread

Jump to