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Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Mon 02-Apr-18 21:33:24
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What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[link to this post]
 
Hey all,

So I had my BT Infinity home move a couple of weeks ago, the line appears to have settled now leaving me at 37mbps downstream (on a 35mbps guaranteed line), DSL checker says I should be able to get 56 downstream and my max attainable is 63mbps. However i've noticed that my line appears to be a two pair figure 8 type cable (I believe from the GPO days?), shoddily connected to a curved junction box, converting it to 0.25m of twisted pair cable into a 5C master socket with a split phone and broadband faceplate.

I've done quiet line and have heard a few crackles and pops but nothing too loud or noisy, but i'm pretty sure I'd be able to squeeze more out of it with a new modern twisted pair cable that BT now use rather than this old one. Realistically i'd like to get the master socket moved anyway as it's not really in the best of locations and it's an extremely long run of cable down the side of the house), i'm even happy to pay the Openreach fees for this.

Does anyone know how I could possibly go about this?

Cheers!

Edited by Nitro93 (Mon 02-Apr-18 22:31:52)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 02-Apr-18 21:47:07
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
First, what are the line stats from your router?

Second, which Infinity product are you on?

Third, have you checked the home wiring is optimised?

Fourth, where does the 37Mbps come from?

Fifth, where does the max attainable come from?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 71097/14070Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Apr-18 22:14:44
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
I just asked my ISP to get openreach out because I had a dropwire as an underground feed and it was totally wrong. Openreach dug up my drive, put in new duct on top of the old duct and after a few days new twisted pair which gave me better sync. I am not exactly sure of your situation.

Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Current Sync: 79993/19661

BQM


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Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Mon 02-Apr-18 22:29:58
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
First, what are the line stats from your router?

Second, which Infinity product are you on?

Third, have you checked the home wiring is optimised?

Fourth, where does the 37Mbps come from?

Fifth, where does the max attainable come from?


Cheers for the prompt response!

1. Line stats: https://ibb.co/mvKXpx
2. Package is BT Infinity 1 (52)
3. No extensions from master socket with home wiring, using a RJ45 to RJ11 Cat 5E twisted pair lead from broadband socket to router (TP Link VR400).

Images of wiring can be found here: https://ibb.co/dsB92H and https://ibb.co/fBrbhH

37Mbps comes from line stats from router as above, throughput is about 31 on Speedtest downstream.

Max attainable (or rate I assume?) comes from router stats above - sorry typo'd it as 68 in my original post, have edited it!

In reply to a post by Banger:
I just asked my ISP to get openreach out because I had a dropwire as an underground feed and it was totally wrong. Openreach dug up my drive, put in new duct on top of the old duct and after a few days new twisted pair which gave me better sync. I am not exactly sure of your situation.


Sounds simple! Was it a case of dodgy wiring or completely the wrong dropwire? Was it chargeable?

Edited by Nitro93 (Mon 02-Apr-18 22:46:47)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Apr-18 22:58:25
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Was an overhead wire put underground in the 80s by a contractor and it wasn't chargeable but I had to have several survey visits by OR.

Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Current Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 02-Apr-18 23:37:48
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Nitro.

The key figures in your stats are the 36999 downstream sync, allied to the 8.8dB noise (SNR) margin. That is highly suggestive of DLM having capped your sync at 37Mbps.

The usual reason for that is an excessive number of errors over 24 hours. Also indicated by the 13189 error figure in a fortnight. Coming from your TP Link.

Unless you had good reason not to run with the supplied BT Hub, my suggestion is that the eBay'ing of the VR400 may have been for a good reason. I would put the BT Hub back and see what happens.

Unfortunately, as I believe DLM has intervened, the automatic removal of banding is unlikely to happen for months even if the TP Link is the problem. I don't think you can monitor the error rate with the Hub, so you wan't be able to monitor it frown.

Sorry, at the moment I can't think of a better solution. I doubt if it is the drop wire itself, unless there are visible signs of damage on it, such as tree branch wear.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 71097/14070Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Tue 03-Apr-18 01:12:08
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Thanks Nitro.

The key figures in your stats are the 36999 downstream sync, allied to the 8.8dB noise (SNR) margin. That is highly suggestive of DLM having capped your sync at 37Mbps.

The usual reason for that is an excessive number of errors over 24 hours. Also indicated by the 13189 error figure in a fortnight. Coming from your TP Link.

Unless you had good reason not to run with the supplied BT Hub, my suggestion is that the eBay'ing of the VR400 may have been for a good reason. I would put the BT Hub back and see what happens.

Unfortunately, as I believe DLM has intervened, the automatic removal of banding is unlikely to happen for months even if the TP Link is the problem. I don't think you can monitor the error rate with the Hub, so you wan't be able to monitor it frown.

Sorry, at the moment I can't think of a better solution. I doubt if it is the drop wire itself, unless there are visible signs of damage on it, such as tree branch wear.


Hey Roberto,

Cheers for the help - wouldn't switching to the BT Hub cause further DLM intervention? Hence why I haven't bothered to switch back yet really!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 03-Apr-18 01:29:17
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
A single disconnection/reconnection will cause no problem at all. I forget the exact number it is happy with, but it is a few in any single hour, Possibly a rolling hour, I donít know.

Having said that, it isnít something I would risk for more than a single hour in 24.

But banding does normally take ages to clear, Iím afraid.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. 200GB. Sync 71097/14070Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User richi
(member) Tue 03-Apr-18 08:16:17
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Nitro93:
I've done quiet line and have heard a few crackles and pops
Right there. Those are your magic words.

If you're hearing noises with a wired phone plugged into the test socket, Openreach will send an engineer. Just get your CP to raise a voice fault.

In my experience, it might require a few engineer visits before you get a good 'un.

Best of luck!

3 km line on THTG: 17/1.2 Mb/s with Plusnet Business.
Previously: BT ISDN, Nildram, Plusnet, 186k, EFH, Be*, Plusnet (again), Pulse8, Sky.
Standard User nemeth782
(committed) Tue 03-Apr-18 10:02:00
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
In my old house I had this cabling.

I resolved it by getting a 2nd line installed, which meant modern twisted cabling being installed from the pole, as the drop wire was only a single pair.

I then had two FTTC lines and used load balancing to give myself a reasonable speed.

It only helped a little though, the aluminium section between the pole and the cab did more to hurt my speed as it turned out!

The old "speaker wire" stuff is much thicker, so while it is less impervious to noise due to being flat, it actually attenuates less.
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Tue 17-Apr-18 08:55:42
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
A single disconnection/reconnection will cause no problem at all. I forget the exact number it is happy with, but it is a few in any single hour, Possibly a rolling hour, I donít know.

Having said that, it isnít something I would risk for more than a single hour in 24.

But banding does normally take ages to clear, Iím afraid.


So, a couple of weeks on after switching to the BT hub as suggested and yesterday it felt like the DLM gods shone upon me and my sync speeds went to to the max attainable of 50 down and 14 up (was very pleased). Unfortunately we had a sparky round who switched the power off (just once) at this point I was worried that it would affect it, but the speed actually increased to 51mbps down and 14 up.

The line seemed really stable, at around midnight last night it reset again with the same stats so thereís me thinking that everything was absolutely fine - only me to check it again this morning and itís back to 40mbps / 10 up. Surely DLM wouldnít do such a sharp decrease and rather gradually bring it down instead?

Stats below from last night and this morning, very confused!

Yesterday morning: https://ibb.co/gPRzu7
This morning: https://ibb.co/eoUV1n

What could be the cause of this? Because it was running absolutely fine yesterday and canít understand how when it resyncs at the same rate if thereís an issue?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Apr-18 09:14:09
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
The exact 40/10 is odd since that suggests you've been shuffled onto the 40/10 product.

There is another hint of this in that there is now spare noise margin indicating modem thinks it can go faster. If after the next restart of the hub the 40/10 remains and you have noise margins above 6dB (i.e. there is some spare) then a speed cap for a 40/10 is likely to have been imposed.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Tue 17-Apr-18 09:19:15
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The exact 40/10 is odd since that suggests you've been shuffled onto the 40/10 product.

There is another hint of this in that there is now spare noise margin indicating modem thinks it can go faster. If after the next restart of the hub the 40/10 remains and you have noise margins above 6dB (i.e. there is some spare) then a speed cap for a 40/10 is likely to have been imposed.


Further to this, the IP address is the same as it was at the 50mbps speed which is very perculiar. Why would I have been shifted to this product when I pay for 52 and can clearly achieve it? If not anything in between the 40 and 50mbps should suffice on the 52 product? I donít believe my line is long enough to be downgraded, especially when DSL checker reckons I can reach 61! Do you reckon itís an internal issue for customer services?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Apr-18 10:23:17
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Without access to DLM logs and order logs between BT and Openreach impossible to say more than it looks you are now on 40/10 service.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Tue 17-Apr-18 10:44:26
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Without access to DLM logs and order logs between BT and Openreach impossible to say more than it looks you are now on 40/10 service.


Cheers as always for your help Andrew, I never would have thought of that at all!
My BT account still states 52 package, but itís so exact that I think I would be inclined to agree with you. What would the best course of action be here to get this changed?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 17-Apr-18 11:41:26
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Its let modem sit for a day or so, and do a resync to check if anything changes and then pester.

The DLM may have applied banding and it just so happens it picked 40/10 but I'd lean towards an oddity with the product

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Tue 17-Apr-18 12:57:15
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Its let modem sit for a day or so, and do a resync to check if anything changes and then pester.

The DLM may have applied banding and it just so happens it picked 40/10 but I'd lean towards an oddity with the product


Will do, it did sit at 40/10 for about two weeks until this happened suddenly yesterday, but if I was capped I doubt it would demote me down to 40/10 straight from 50?

Seems a bit odd to me!
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Wed 18-Apr-18 09:29:03
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Its let modem sit for a day or so, and do a resync to check if anything changes and then pester.

The DLM may have applied banding and it just so happens it picked 40/10 but I'd lean towards an oddity with the product


So it did a resync last night and is still standing at 40/10. How would I go about talking about this to BT? I had a chat with a customer service advisor yesterday who just gave me the usual talk about how itís within the minimum guaranteed speeds so thereís nothing they can do, and that they ďnever cap their customersĒ but I have a feeling you might be right about the 40/10 situation. Any help on how to word this to get it properly looked into would be amazing!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 18-Apr-18 10:13:58
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
No magic words for dealing with retail beyond eventually finding someone who understands

As for the no capping, the DLM system does have a banding system, retailers have no control over that.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Wed 18-Apr-18 20:37:40
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
No magic words for dealing with retail beyond eventually finding someone who understands

As for the no capping, the DLM system does have a banding system, retailers have no control over that.


Thought as much! So I got home from work today, back up to 50 down/14 up and a 6db upstream and a 5.9db downstream... what on earth?! Starting to think this could well be a line issue after all, either that or weather conditions?
Standard User jabuzzard
(regular) Thu 19-Apr-18 12:10:42
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
The old "speaker wire" stuff is much thicker, so while it is less impervious to noise due to being flat, it actually attenuates less.


The old "speaker wire" as you put it is copper clad steel, where as the newer drop wire is all copper with a separate steel strengthening wire. I am pretty sure the new stuff is better than the CCS of the old stuff.
Standard User bsdnazz
(regular) Thu 19-Apr-18 17:56:11
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: richi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by richi:
In reply to a post by Nitro93:
I've done quiet line and have heard a few crackles and pops
Right there. Those are your magic words.

If you're hearing noises with a wired phone plugged into the test socket, Openreach will send an engineer. Just get your CP to raise a voice fault.

In my experience, it might require a few engineer visits before you get a good 'un.

Best of luck!


I'll second what richi says. If you've got noise on the line using a wired phone connected to the test socket log a voice fault and get that sorted first. If there's audible noise on the line its quite probably that there's inaudible noise in the VDSL frequencies causing errors and the DLM to kick in.

In the autumn of last year and over Christmas I had problems with my FTTC link and both times there was noise on the line so I logged a voice fault. Once the voice fault was fixed and the line quiet the DLM restored my speed over the course of about a week.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 19-Apr-18 20:17:42
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
DW3 *should* be replaced during a faulting visit ...

Can your ISP not raise a ĎSuperFast visit assuredí type job with Openreach ?

Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Sun 22-Apr-18 14:07:17
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
DW3 *should* be replaced during a faulting visit ...

Can your ISP not raise a ĎSuperFast visit assuredí type job with Openreach ?


Engineer visit has been set up for next Saturday after other family members complaining about a constant crackly line. Will keep updated!
Standard User Nitro93
(learned) Sat 28-Apr-18 09:25:12
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
DW3 *should* be replaced during a faulting visit ...

Can your ISP not raise a ĎSuperFast visit assuredí type job with Openreach ?


Success! Engineer came round today, knew exactly what it was before he'd even entered the house. Needs a hoist to get up the pole so drop wire getting replaced next week, said they'd also do a DLM reset too so fingers crossed!
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Apr-18 14:12:18
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Sounds promising smile

Obviously no hoist in today on their patch ... have had one out today over here.

Standard User Nitro93
(regular) Wed 09-May-18 09:17:06
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
So a strange chain of events since the initial engineer visit. Have had two other engineers visit, all saying that they need a hoist to do the job and thereís none in the area at the moment.

Iíve been assigned a BT case manager who has told me that Openreach said they wonít need any access to the house to do the work. This is slightly confusing, donít they need to terminate the new dropwire into the master socket? It seems like theyíre only going to replace the overhead cable and then just attach it to the old one at the property, which seems a bit pointless to me if the fault could be anywhere along the line?

Anyone had any experience of this?
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 12-May-18 11:28:53
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Nitro93] [link to this post]
 
Does the old dropwire feed all the way in to the NTE ? If so, then yes, I'd think a full replacement was the best bet.

Standard User Nitro93
(regular) Fri 18-May-18 13:30:30
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Re: What magic words will get my old dropwire changed?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Does the old dropwire feed all the way in to the NTE ? If so, then yes, I'd think a full replacement was the best bet.


All done! New faceplate and dropwire replaced. Still at 40/10 though. So I emailed our good friend Gavin (BT CEO) and theyíve looked into it. Turns out thereís an issue with the cabinet and my complaint has somehow only just flagged it. Port fault potentially?

BT case manager confirmed that iím actually on an 80/20 package with BT Wholesale do cabinet issue definitely sounds like the issue here
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