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Standard User tipichris
(newbie) Wed 22-May-13 10:51:30
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Why throttle P2P anyway


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Further to my experience of being caught as a 'false positive' by Eclipse's throttling of P2P I find I'm left with a question that I wonder if anyone here can offer a sensible answer to.

Why throttle P2P anyway?

Now on an unlimited data package I could understand it. Fair distribution of network resources and all that. But I'm not. I'm on a 50GB per month package. Surely that monthly cap should be sufficient to ensure that a user doesn't spoil things for everyone by excessive P2P usage? Who's going to let their P2P usage run wild knowing that their whole connection's going to get throttled for the rest of the month if they do?

The system doesn't work.It has unintended negative consequences. Yet I'm struggling to see what positive benefits it actually has. Can anyone explain, or have Eclipse just not thought this one through?
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 22-May-13 11:28:51
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: tipichris] [link to this post]
 
P2P tends to be a greedy protocol with many many TCP/IP connections - there's a paper published about it somewhere proposing a fairer way of allocating traffic capacity. If each TCP/IP connection gets the same priority then one P2P app gets N times the bandwidth of a web browsing session, for example.

While a monthly limit is a constraint, you can get into the scenario where the P2P users grab all the bandwidth for a period at the start of a billing month etc as not everyone manages their use sensibly.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User tipichris
(newbie) Wed 22-May-13 11:39:45
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
True, but...

1. Just because you can get into such a scenario doesn't mean you will. Users are likely to learn to manage their usage pretty quickly. That sounds to me like an engineer thinking through a social question.

2. Even if users don't learn to manage their use, with a sizeable user base and billing period starts randomly and more or less evenly distributed this shouldn't be issue for the network as a whole (though I suppose it might be at the exchange level where there are fewer users to distribute things around).


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Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-May-13 12:31:24
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: tipichris] [link to this post]
 
But thousand do, especially when they are "unlimited".

Was Eclipse Home Option 1 & VM 2Mb
Now O2 standard
Standard User tipichris
(newbie) Wed 22-May-13 12:34:57
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
I don't question the value of P2P throttling on an unlimited package. What I question is whether it is necessary in addition to a monthly limit.

Especially if, as in this case, they can't actually get it to work properly.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 22-May-13 14:19:40
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: tipichris] [link to this post]
 
1. Just because you can get into such a scenario doesn't mean you will. Users are likely to learn to manage their usage pretty quickly. That sounds to me like an engineer thinking through a social question.


Probably, but engineers come up with solutions. Like on a community wireless network we just blocked P2P completely so the P2P morons didn't screw it up for everyone.

Forums abound with people running out of allowances in week 2 and kicking back against their ISP. A monthly allowance is a blunt instrument and like towing a brick with a piece of elastic. Demon's sliding allowance is more subtle.

Personally I would offer or indeed buy a no-P2P product if it allowed me to reduce prices or increase service.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User tipichris
(newbie) Wed 22-May-13 14:29:05
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Personally I would offer or indeed buy a no-P2P product if it allowed me to reduce prices or increase service


I would have said the same, and went into the deal with Eclipse with eyes open and aware that they throttle P2P. It didn't bother me; I don't use it.

Unfortunately, it seems that correctly identifying P2P traffic is not as straightforward as it sounds. And in particular, it is beyond the wit of Eclipse, or at least it is beyond the wit of whoever supplies their traffic management systems. What's worrying now as I look for another provider is the possibility that others use the same broken systems and I'll end up in the same boat elsewhere.

Blocking or throttling P2P is all very well if you can accurately identify it. But when you can't, it too becomes a blunt instrument.
Standard User flippery
(member) Wed 26-Jun-13 10:35:24
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: tipichris] [link to this post]
 
As an aside to this post. Could false positive be the reason I am getting intermittent problems with general web browsing?
I have a stable SNR 3 down and 5 up with top sync related to attenuation on CN21 yet.

1) using ebay I sometimes get the lot description displayed correctly but get
" Cannot display this page" where description of item should be.
2) With this site, and others, I can read a couple of posts, then on reading the third get the forever spinning cursor.
3) On Iplayer and others player freezes completely.

As said they do not happen all of the time but every day. However, the only way to resolve problem is always to exit browser.
The problem exists with both laptops and different routers. If I log into my neighbours BT line there is no problem.
Eclipse support can find no fault. Time to move on
Standard User Kathphlox
(regular) Fri 07-Feb-14 01:56:09
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
Sorry everyone, I didn't realise that this was a very old post.

I have no problem with Enta (the best in my eyes), I watch 4 hours of catchups every nite. I've not tried P2P on here for a few years, because I have access to other sources.. I am an old time P2P'er and always love P2P before it became so toxic. It's a shame, I really did enjoy sharing stuff smile

WooHoo, I currently have 12mbps.. it's great, upgraded without me even knowing. smile

~Kath~
Always judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of no possible use to them

Edited by Kathphlox (Fri 07-Feb-14 02:14:23)

Standard User Kathphlox
(regular) Fri 07-Feb-14 02:09:12
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Re: Why throttle P2P anyway


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by flippery:
As an aside to this post. Could false positive be the reason I am getting intermittent problems with general web browsing?
I have a stable SNR 3 down and 5 up with top sync related to attenuation on CN21 yet.

1) using ebay I sometimes get the lot description displayed correctly but get
" Cannot display this page" where description of item should be.
2) With this site, and others, I can read a couple of posts, then on reading the third get the forever spinning cursor.
3) On Iplayer and others player freezes completely.

As said they do not happen all of the time but every day. However, the only way to resolve problem is always to exit browser.
The problem exists with both laptops and different routers. If I log into my neighbours BT line there is no problem.
Eclipse support can find no fault. Time to move on


Do you think it might be the routers you tried? I had some really bad problems exactly like you describe last year. I replaced the router with a brand new one and it's been great since then.. just a thought smile

Logging into BT and all OK with that seems to be something odd.. I hope you resolve this.

~Kath~
Always judge a person by the way they treat someone who can be of no possible use to them
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