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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 12-Nov-10 18:25:45
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IPv6


[link to this post]
 
IIRC this has been available on Entanet for quite a long time. Am I right?

If so, apparently there can be drawbacks - see this thread.

Any good or bad experiences please? Just want to form a view on the subject.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Sat 13-Nov-10 14:55:55
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes and no. Enta did offer IPv6 but it was a beta and that closed some time ago. Since then they have not offered IPv6 on xDSL services at all.

UK Free Software Network
http://www.ukfsn.org/
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Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sat 13-Nov-10 18:05:07
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Re: IPv6


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
I've got a pretty good memory but had a little bit of trouble finding this smile

Steve Lalonde (16th Sept 2010)
"We have been running IPv6 on the Entanet network for 5 years. #ipv6"
http://twitter.com/#!/routerfixer/status/24643308734

I'm not sure how this fits in with everything but it sounds good! smile
He's the CTO of Entanet so I'm sure he knows his onions!
I follow him on Twitter so that's an in joke smile


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 13-Nov-10 22:19:02
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Re: IPv6


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm .... Thanks Jason, but not good news. The reason I asked was this thread.

Looks a bit as though my comment in there about the hash BT could make of it might be close to the mark. That comment was what I was looking for evidence about, for or against.

It strikes me as close to being important.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 13-Nov-10 22:21:41
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Re: IPv6


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Thanks b4dger smile.

Not followed those links - probably will do tomorrow, F1 and other things permitting. Too tired and wine-happy to go there at the moment.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-Nov-10 20:32:21
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Enta didn't publicly state their reason for closing the beta and not going live however I do remember comments about the lack of a consumer routers which support IPv6 properly and the poor support where it was supposed to be there.

I cannot remember whether or not there were BT problems with IPv6 but it does ring a bell and aaisp comes to mind as well with the bell so there may be something to what you have stated. I'll leave it to you to google for confirmation though.

UK Free Software Network
http://www.ukfsn.org/
ADSL Broadband, Dialup, Hosting, Domains, SSL and more
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 14-Nov-10 22:22:48
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Re: IPv6


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
smile
A bit of a minefield I think.

Any idea what happened to the triallists? I think there were several posted here at the time. I wonder if they stayed on it, or had to revert even if they found it worked for them.

Or maybe they all left for other reasons anyway.

Thanks for the background info in any case.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Wotan
(learned) Sun 14-Nov-10 22:35:46
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm still here using IPv6.

Enta's IPv6 support, though has been very hit and miss, mainly miss over the last couple of years.

My IPv6 stopped working summer last year. Despite a number of phones calls, nothing was done. Then on
26th October this year it started working again.

I have no idea what has prompted them to sort this out. I gave up calling them over a year ago.

UKFSN since April 2004.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 14-Nov-10 22:58:11
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Re: IPv6


[re: Wotan] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Wotan.

Is there any truth in the suggestion that many sites are not available over it? As mentioned in the linked thread.

If so, how do you get round that? Can you have both protocols operating simultaneously? Ie a graceful fail-safe on v6.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User Wotan
(learned) Mon 15-Nov-10 00:56:41
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
On Linux, IPv4 & IPv6 run side by side.

If a site has an IPv6 address only, that address will be used.
If a site has both IPv6 and IPv4 addresses, the IPv6 address will be used.
If a site has an IPv4 address only, that address will be used.
It is totally transparent. The only way you know if you are using IPv6 or IPv4 to contact a site is if the site tells you. See noc.enta.net

I have not encountered any sites that I could access when I had only IPv4, that I cannot access now that I have both IPv6 and IPv4. (when using BT 21CN connectivity)

This was not the case when using BT 20CN connectivity. As I recall this was due to a problem with some BT Cisco equipment not handling small packets. This effected ipv6.google.com.

Another reason that people may not be able to access certain sites is, if the authoritative dns server for a site is contactable on IPv6 only, and their ISP's dns servers can only contact other dns servers using IPv4.
Then the addresses for those sites will be unsresolvable.

I only know of one site that I cannot access because of this. (I use Enta's dns servers)

If you know of any specific sites that people are having problems with, let me know what they are and I will try them.

UKFSN since April 2004.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 15-Nov-10 08:13:24
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Re: IPv6


[re: Wotan] [link to this post]
 
That's a great reply Wotan. Thanks smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Nov-10 14:52:55
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Re: IPv6


[re: Wotan] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Wotan:
On Linux, IPv4 & IPv6 run side by side.

If a site has an IPv6 address only, that address will be used.
If a site has both IPv6 and IPv4 addresses, the IPv6 address will be used.

I have not encountered any sites that I could access when I had only IPv4, that I cannot access now that I have both IPv6 and IPv4. (when using BT 21CN connectivity)


There is a case in which you can run into problems. Where a site publishes DNS records for IPv4 (A record) and IPv6 (AAAA record) and you are unable to connect via IPv6 some systems will time out on IPv6 and will not try IPv4 even though that does work.

Debian Etch suffered this problem and it was a serious pain in the ....

UK Free Software Network
http://www.ukfsn.org/
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Standard User andew
(regular) Fri 19-Nov-10 13:14:26
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Re: IPv6


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
According to enta's partner site that information is incorrect.

18th November 2010 IPv6 CLARIFICATION
We would like to remind all partners that Entanetís network is enabled to support IPv6. However, our DSL, colocation and leased line services are set to use IPv4 as default to ensure that customersí setup is correct prior to adopting IPv6, for example in terms of having IPv6 supporting hardware and firewalls in place. If you or your customers would like to upgrade to IPv6 you can do so easily and for no extra charge by emailing IPv6@enta.net.

Regards

Andrew
Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Fri 19-Nov-10 18:50:07
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Re: IPv6


[re: andew] [link to this post]
 
The partner notification is the first communication I've had about this since they told me that they had suspended the IPv6 trial in January this year.

It is good to know that customers can now get IPv6, subject to the customer having a CPE that actually supports it which is still a rarity.

UK Free Software Network
http://www.ukfsn.org/
ADSL Broadband, Dialup, Hosting, Domains, SSL and more
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Fri 26-Nov-10 09:23:30
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You might be interested in this article posted yesterday by Entanet: IPv6 do or die

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 26-Nov-10 10:31:04
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Re: IPv6


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
You might be interested in this article posted yesterday by Entanet: IPv6 do or die
Thanks for that too smile.

All a bit confusing with some people forecasting imminent melt-down and others saying it's no big deal. That article is quite well argued and convincing, but definitely on the doom side.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User drogon
(learned) Sat 27-Nov-10 17:24:09
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
IIRC this has been available on Entanet for quite a long time. Am I right?

If so, apparently there can be drawbacks - see this thread.

Any good or bad experiences please? Just want to form a view on the subject.


FWIW: I've been using Entanet's IPv6 offering for a week or so now - natively without going via a tunnel of any sort.

So if you want IPv6 then ask your reseller for it to be enabled and for your own /64 to be routed to you.

I can't say it's plain sailing though - you will need either an ADSL router that supports it natively, or use a modem in true bridge mode (e.g. Vigor 120 which I'm using) and then run PPPoE on your own router - either a Linux/*BSD box, or another router that supports it, and supports IPv6. I've also had MTU issues too, but I suspect that might be an artifact of running IPv6 over PPPoE via a PPPoE to PPPoA bridge...

You'll also need to learn IPv6 firewalling because you can't trust NAT anymore smile

(Well, you can NAT IPv6, but let's face, it the whole point of having a virtually unlimited supply of IP addresses means we shouldn't ever have to!)

There isn't a lot out there on ipv6 yet, but unless someone makes a start, then that's not going to change. I'm looking to give all my hosted servers/websites, etc. their own IPv6 addresses early next year as soon as my co-lo providers gets their systems up to speed.

Some estimates of running out of IPv4 addresses put the date as soon as March 2011! The Internet won't stop then, but I suspect new allocations will slow down as the ISPs do a bit of squeezing and consolodating. I reckon it will still last for a few years before there is a serious problem, but why should we wait for that to happen?

G
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Nov-10 09:34:15
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Re: IPv6


[re: drogon] [link to this post]
 
Hi,
What router are you now using?

Standard User drogon
(learned) Sun 28-Nov-10 10:05:19
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Re: IPv6


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
Hi,
What router are you now using?


A self-built Linux box. Basically a PC with 5 Ethernet ports running Debian with a custom compiled kernel and iptables setup - I have a rather "interesting" network - more for my own use than anything else, but it includes support for 2 Wi-Fi access points, a separate DMZ (or 2) and some other "stuff".

G
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Nov-10 10:51:31
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Re: IPv6


[re: drogon] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, I should have asked what 'modem' you are using smile

I'm a broadcom chipset fan so am starting to look at IPv6 compatible ones.

Standard User drogon
(learned) Sun 28-Nov-10 12:29:34
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Re: IPv6


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
Sorry, I should have asked what 'modem' you are using smile

I'm a broadcom chipset fan so am starting to look at IPv6 compatible ones.


A Draytek Vigor 120 modem/bridge.

You might want to check this link:

List of devices

for hints to which makes/models might work..

G
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Nov-10 13:55:06
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Re: IPv6


[re: drogon] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. I was directed to that list by someone the other day.
There only seem to be a handful of routers?! Doesn't seem right for something that's supposed to be so important...

Is it going to be another Y2K ? wink

Standard User drogon
(learned) Sun 28-Nov-10 14:03:27
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Re: IPv6


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
Thanks. I was directed to that list by someone the other day.
There only seem to be a handful of routers?! Doesn't seem right for something that's supposed to be so important...

Is it going to be another Y2K ? wink


You're right - it's bonkers! IPv6 has been with us for 10 years, yet only now (some) people are doing something about it.

I don't think the world of Internet will end come March, but I do think there will be a bit of a rush soon - maybe towards the end of 2011. The local registrys will likely start to squeeze things a bit - so most of us won't notice anything for quite some time.

And right now there aren't many sites even using IPv6 - I can't get it in my co-lo as my upstream don't support it - yet (promised for early 2011 though). (I could use a tunnel-broker, but that just adds more hops and more Internet to the data, and I'll need to renumber when I do get an allocation for my co-lo, so it's not worth it right now for anything other than some simple testing)

It's probably a huge chicken & egg situation right now - the content providers won't go IPv6 (or at least not pure IPv6), because no-one at home/office is IPv6 and the ISPs won't provide IPv6 because there's no demand... (or none precieved)

G
Standard User xela
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Dec-10 12:24:09
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Re: IPv6


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
> If so, how do you get round that? Can you have both protocols operating simultaneously? Ie a graceful fail-safe on v6.

Yep - you run them side by side.

You've been able to do this - easily - for literally years on most operating systems..

mac screenshot - if my router supported IPv6, my computer would have picked up the IPv6 settings automatically. I'm pretty sure it's just as simple on windows (I had it running on Windows XP at one point) but I don't recall where you find all the settings.
Standard User Uilebheist
(legend) Sun 09-Jan-11 10:44:41
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Re: IPv6


[re: drogon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by drogon:
And right now there aren't many sites even using IPv6 - I can't get it in my co-lo as my upstream don't support it - yet (promised for early 2011 though). (I could use a tunnel-broker, but that just adds more hops and more Internet to the data, and I'll need to renumber when I do get an allocation for my co-lo, so it's not worth it right now for anything other than some simple testing)

Well, depends on the tunnel provider etc, but I find that tunnelled IPv6 is often faster than native IPv4 from one of my colocated servers. May be because it is in the same datacentre as the tunnel server, and they appear to have better connectivity to the rest of the world.
On the other hand on another colocated server the situation is reversed and the IPv6 tunnel is noticeably slower. Since they started offering native IPv6 I no longer care though.
it is possible to run tunnels and native IPv6 side by side and I've tried doing it. It's not easy and it could be a bit of nightmare to set up properly (actually trying to do that initially resulted in me using the NetBSD "bug report" facility more than I'd like to do frown)
So yes, if your provider may end up giving native IPv6 "soon" it may not be worth the effort of using tunnels. But if they just keeppromising and not delivering, tunnels may work surprisingly well.
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