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Standard User DJHS
(learned) Thu 24-Mar-11 09:50:49
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How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[link to this post]
 
How do we find out if BT have plans for FTTC to a village?

Some business users in my area are looking into the costs etc of implementing a WIMAX system to serve the area. Then a rumour started that BT is planning to run FTTC from the exchange to one of the villages in this area. That would partly undermine the case for the Wimax approach. I don't know the source of the rumour.

How do we find out if BT REALLY have plans for FTTC to this village and the likely timescale?

I have not seen anything on Samknows that helps. The exchange is listed as FTTC not available.
A call to the local BT Business Centre was no help.

Thanks.

David HS
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 24-Mar-11 11:06:45
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: DJHS] [link to this post]
 
You would have to liase with the head people of Openreach, i.e well above the business centre level which is really just a call centre for SME's.

They are under no obligation to reveal their roll-out plans.

If the real concern is that when a commercial operator brings faster broadband to the area it will destroy any community system, then either the community system is not offering something better, price or speed for example, or promotion of the local system was not enough.

BT has said where funds are forthcoming it will review an area. Have you got local council, parish/district/county involved? They can apply for funding which while not massive can help underwrite some of the costs.

At end of the day, if Openreach starts to see money to be made in a wider FTTC roll-out then it will happen, and I would expect while plans are for 66% coverage, in the next ten years or so this will slowly creep up, and at some point the FTTH will start to take over if we are talking in 20 to 30 year terms.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 24-Mar-11 11:07:50
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: DJHS] [link to this post]
 
You can download the schedule here (among various places)

http://support.aquiss.net/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=...

Would a FTTC rollout negate the need for a wireless solution? If the village is tightly clustered and with a cabinet at the centre and properties no more than a couple of km from it tops, then perhaps; FTTC starts at just 5 meg but I have yet to see (and perhaps BT have yet to see) how VDSL performs over e.g. 2km of wire.

If it doesn't have a cab and is fed directly overhead, there won't be any FTTC because there's no cab.

Bear in mind the rollout is at exchange level which doesn't indicate whether any specific street will be able to have the service, though that said, if there is a cab, it might be the only one in that area.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 24-Mar-11 11:11:08
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
An important to make, it does not need the local exchange to be enabled, they can choose the to run the fibre to another exchange in the area, so a next door exchange may be enabled and the cabinets closest to that exchange get FTTC.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User DJHS
(learned) Thu 24-Mar-11 14:47:54
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: DJHS] [link to this post]
 
Thank you anon and Andrew. I have looked at the aquiss document.

This illustrates the problem of "if you want the right answer, ask the right question". I think I did not ask a sufficiently focussed question, so I will try again.

Large village AAA has the exchange. The phone lines then run about 4.5 km south to another village BBB. From there the cable runs 2 km west to a third village CCC where the residents get only minimal broadband - with difficulty. (There are other farms and houses in the area as well)

So I think my question should be: Is it likely that BT is planning to replace the cable from AAA to BBB with fibre to shorten the copper runs to CCC and neighbourhood, so as to eliminate what is pretty much a "Not spot"? If the cable from AAA to BBB needs replacing for maintenance and reliability reasons, then presumably fibre would be the preferred choice?
(CCC is in a dip and gets very restricted mobile service as well, for good measure.)

None of the towns in our part of rural North Yorkshire are mentioned in the "Super Fast Fibre Roll out" document, never mind villages AAA, BBB or CCC. I suppose i should not be surprised a this stage.

Yes it is true solving the problem for one village does not completely wipe out a WIMAX approach. I am told it can serve a an area with a 10 km radius. But it is a significant part of the user base..

David HS
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 24-Mar-11 14:52:24
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: DJHS] [link to this post]
 
North Yorkshire - wireless very much affected by the presence of hills and transmitter location, and if the National Park mast locations may be limited.

BT as not started installing FTTC to fix not-spots, apart from areas where others are willing to make it attractive to do so. In short, do you have enough people in an area to make the £20,000 or more for each cabinet to be worth BT doing it.

Getting wimax coverage will be simple, the harder part and costly part is hooking to the internet, and retaining someone to do things like installing user hardware and fixing mast etc

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 24-Mar-11 14:59:56
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: DJHS] [link to this post]
 
If there is a cabinet between AAA and BBB - or in village BBB - then that can have fibre laid to that cabinet, the remainder of the connection to the house remains the same old telephone lines which have to be short and good quality - same as with ADSL - to deliver any great speeds.

Same in village CCC. The fibre could go from AAA to CCC directly. As Mr Saffron says it could also come from elsewhere (DDD) to AAA, BBB or CCC.

However the FTTC rollout is not a "get broadband to the final third" or "upgrade the phone network" exercise. The lines remain the same old copper and aliminimum. Those have to stay to provide a phone service. BT have not implemented a system whereby the old lines can be ditched with the telephony running down the fibre.

The FTTC exercise is: if there is a cabinet (first issue in rural areas sometimes) and if the properties it connects to are close enough for it to be worthwhile ("clustered"), then it might be viable. Those two technicalities have to be overcome before getting to whether it's viable from a commercial perspective. The exercise is not replacing bits of the old phone network or the lines from cab to property and the FTTC service only shares the last bit of the phone line from cab to the house.

Your comments about the 10km radius... it all depends on where the cabinets are. The speed determinant is the quality of the line between the cab and the house, and also how long it is. If the exchange were in the middle of your 10km zone, with lots of cabinets, it could probably be a good solution. If on the other hand there were very few properties inside your circle with few cabs and the exchange in the middle, then FTTC probably isn't an option and only the people connected to the cab(s) could have it anyway.
Standard User planetf1
(experienced) Thu 24-Mar-11 19:10:06
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Interesting point about the retention of existing analogue lines for voice.

Was there any consideration of supporting voice services within the cabs themselves. Since the end user's line is already now jumpered to a local msan then conceivably voice could be provided in future?
Standard User ccxo
(regular) Sat 02-Apr-11 07:42:56
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Though would that not require a change of phone number for the people on that cabinet in the neighbouring area?

Asking this beacuse my local parish communications commitee ask this to bt and where told that it would be too expensive to transfer the northern part of the village to the exchange to the south- which has LLU/Cable and FTTC in a few months time.

I am trying to find out as well if the southern cabinet in my village will be enabled for FTTC as it would help the case for the northern one greatly.

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Standard User Quark999
(learned) Sat 02-Apr-11 12:52:50
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Re: How do we find out BT's plans for FTC to a village?


[re: ccxo] [link to this post]
 
Haven't read all of this, so might be off, but if analogue phone lines and the existing phone numbers are an issue, surely migrating to a VOIP provider would solve this? Namely Vonage or Voiptalk/fone etc. - I would have had to change my BT phone number three times by now because I moved from Reading South to Wokingham to Reading Central, all of which are 0118 (9) area codes, but on different exchanges. That's frankly ridiculous, especially compared to elsewhere in the world, so I just migrated to Vonage before my first move and have kept the same phone number ever since...
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