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Standard User rhino7
(learned) Tue 10-Jan-12 19:30:52
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FTTP for some .... Why?


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I've got an Ininity FTTC connection that syncs at 40/10 and has the potential to go to 54/17 since profile 17a was activated on the line. I'm happy enough with the speed and tend to find that I'm limited by the server I'm connected to or the exhange, rather than my connection speed.

Given that FTTC is no doubt fine for most people, why are Openreach installing FTTP to a minority (albeit still a large number)? If they aren't doing it for everyone, why do it for some? Surely they could use the money saved from just installing FTTC to roll out FTTC to those that aren't planned to have any fibre access? Or does the infrstructure of the current FTTC installations allow easy upgrade to FTTP in the future?

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Standard User Moradin
(learned) Tue 10-Jan-12 20:12:09
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: rhino7] [link to this post]
 
Exactly.

Eventually, everyone that wants it, will have FTTP.

If you live very close to the exchange, it doesn't make sense to go out to a DSLAM in the street, some people are already connected to an exchange.

For now, crucial word, now. 40 mb down, is fine. later on, in a few years time, it wont be so special. Whats the limit ? who knows, every time someone tries to predict the maximum bandwidth needed, something else comes along.

I can see a future where every single thing you watch, comes down the fibre. All of your software you use, is held on remote servers and all the associate space is on servers as well.

Economically, right now, it makes sense to do FTTC, later on, as time goes on, they can replace it with fibre, as the copper is replaced over its natural life cycle.

Remember, you say that at the moment, your limited by the servers sending you information.. but as technology improves that will change. Most of the servers you would address right now, are not high end systems.
If you use Usenet for example, i bet that would eat up all your bandwidth, its because they are custom servers, being paid for. high end. max throughput.

Your other point about why do FTTP for some, right now.. is that, knowing BT, its economic sense to drag fibre to those houses right now. but i'm sure its coming everyone's way eventually anyhow.

-----------------------------------------------
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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 10-Jan-12 20:23:26
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: Moradin] [link to this post]
 
Doing some FTTP allows Openreach to have good headline speeds
Build up a knowledge base amongst staff for future expansion
FTTP should be around 10 to 15% of homes at the end

Why not more? Cost, some areas it is cheap enough Openreach believe to do it.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User lee111s
(newbie) Tue 10-Jan-12 21:35:52
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: rhino7] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rhino7:
I've got an Ininity FTTC connection that syncs at 40/10 and has the potential to go to 54/17 since profile 17a was activated on the line. I'm happy enough with the speed and tend to find that I'm limited by the server I'm connected to or the exhange, rather than my connection speed.

Given that FTTC is no doubt fine for most people, why are Openreach installing FTTP to a minority (albeit still a large number)? If they aren't doing it for everyone, why do it for some? Surely they could use the money saved from just installing FTTC to roll out FTTC to those that aren't planned to have any fibre access? Or does the infrstructure of the current FTTC installations allow easy upgrade to FTTP in the future?


I guess you could ask the same question - why are they only installing FTTC for some and not all? 3 cabinets serve my estate and only 1 is getting FTTC. Go figure.
Standard User rhino7
(learned) Tue 10-Jan-12 21:54:01
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I can certainly see and appreciate the argument that in the future ever faster connections will be required as ever more bandwidth intensive services become available. I've read the many posts and articles covering the various profile changes that can be applied to FTTC and the potential gains from the use of vectoring. All of these seem to offer bandwidth that will be sufficient for quite a number of years for the majority.

Of course the ultimate would be FTTP for all and that may be where we will eventually need to get to. It just seems hard to believe that no matter how straightforward it is to install FTTP in some areas, it must always be possible to get many more people connected to FTTC with the budgets available, people who are not included in the present roll out plans.

I guess that the argument for Openreach building up knowledge of FTTP installs is valid too, so long as they are actually going to go back and convert all the FTTC connections to FTTP in the future. The fact that they are doing ANY FTTP installs suggests that the need for the FTTP bandwidth is already envisaged.

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Standard User Spud2003
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 10-Jan-12 22:15:23
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: rhino7] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rhino7:
...so long as they are actually going to go back and convert all the FTTC connections to FTTP in the future. ...


To me it seems unlikely that the private sector will convert connections to FTTP. Unless there is the political will to do something like the NBN in Australia I suspect that for most FTTC is the best we can hope for.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 10-Jan-12 22:21:40
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: Spud2003] [link to this post]
 
In a five year time frame maybe, but in ten years things may change to make full fibre more attractive, with the extra work involved in pushing it out to all.

The scale is FTTC for 85,000 (whole of UK) versus some 25 million properties for FTTP

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 10-Jan-12 22:54:43
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: Moradin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Moradin:
Exactly.

Eventually, everyone that wants it, will have FTTP.

If you live very close to the exchange, it doesn't make sense to go out to a DSLAM in the street, some people are already connected to an exchange.

For now, crucial word, now. 40 mb down, is fine. later on, in a few years time, it wont be so special. Whats the limit ? who knows, every time someone tries to predict the maximum bandwidth needed, something else comes along.

I can see a future where every single thing you watch, comes down the fibre. All of your software you use, is held on remote servers and all the associate space is on servers as well.


and that is very scary, thankfully those times are a long way off, i will keep my software on my computer thank you very much.

Economically, right now, it makes sense to do FTTC, later on, as time goes on, they can replace it with fibre, as the copper is replaced over its natural life cycle.

Remember, you say that at the moment, your limited by the servers sending you information.. but as technology improves that will change. Most of the servers you would address right now, are not high end systems.
If you use Usenet for example, i bet that would eat up all your bandwidth, its because they are custom servers, being paid for. high end. max throughput.

Your other point about why do FTTP for some, right now.. is that, knowing BT, its economic sense to drag fibre to those houses right now. but i'm sure its coming everyone's way eventually anyhow.


do we really need all that speed? it is like someone going out and buying a sports car that can do 150MPh and yet only doing 40MPH. Many people that have fibre will find little difference as they don't use it to it's full.

i only 3.5-4 megabits and most of the time it does what i want, sure i would not mind a little bit more speed now and again, but I don't need or want 40 megabits.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User WWWombat
(committed) Wed 11-Jan-12 01:21:50
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think "knowledge" is the key point here... we are at a point where fibre is becoming viable in the access network for more widespread deployment.

It is a thing that many of joe public forget, but is key for BT as a whole - what technology can be cost-effectively deployed for everyone *in bulk*, and remain in the ground for decades in a maintainable state.

As BT gets the equipment that can be deployed in bulk, and maintained long-term, then they also need the knowledge behind all those processes - installation, removal, repair etc - and I think that BT are aiming to get this in place during the current roll-out so they can plan to go further with FTTP in the following decade or two.

The original 20CN DSLAMs are now end-of-life and cannot be maintained easily - which might be considered a bit of a blow, investment-wise. I doubt that BT want this to happen within the access network.
Standard User WWWombat
(committed) Wed 11-Jan-12 01:40:55
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Re: FTTP for some .... Why?


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
do we really need all that speed? it is like someone going out and buying a sports car that can do 150MPh and yet only doing 40MPH. Many people that have fibre will find little difference as they don't use it to it's full.

The analogy doesn't stand up to parallelism: Put 5 people in the house doing 40MPH, and you suddenly need a car capable of 200MPH???

The availability of such speeds helps make a market that just couldn't exist with slow speeds available. Internet-based backups, for example. Or the recent launch of Netflix.

Just wait until everyone in the family is streaming video, or watching a TV catch-up service - and you'll soon find a full FTTC connection.

Oh... and it isn't all about the speed - stability coms into it too. FTTC seems to be proving pretty stable (except for a few poor souls who aren't treated well enough IMHO) relative to ADSL2+; FTTP will be a huge leap forward on this front.
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