General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 10:22:04
Print Post

FTTC: should I report a fault?


[link to this post]
 
At first glance my connection seems perfect (or as close as I can get) with (from a Fritz! modem) 42 att/40 synch download, 7 att/6.6 sync upload @ 600m from cab. The underground line is decripid, though, with numerous repair joints at each of the 50 houses back to the cab. (ADSL2 never managed more than 4.5Mbps/3.5Mbps throughput at 3.4km from the exchange and a 47 att). Occasional resyncs are 10-15 days apart. My VDSL service is not subject to any throttling or speed restriction (IDNet).

The slight causes for concern are:
1. although the BT speedtester shows a throughput up to 35Mbps, all other speedtesters range between 6Mbps and 14Mbps. The Fritz! own monitoring of throughput shows it can occasionally attain up to 35Mbps, but more often in the range 8-17Mbps, measured during heavy downloads. EDIT: PCs attached by ethernet cable to the router.
2. I know and expect the line is interleaved (INP=3) but the FEC error count is usuallly around or above ten thousand per minute when the connection is "idle". They're lower sometimes in the hundreds under heavy downloads. However CRC errors usually mount at 0.2-0.5 per minute, and error seconds several hundred over a couple of days, but seriously errored seconds keep in single figures over a few days.
3. Since the 17a profile move TBBQM shows a constant 10-20% "spikey" packet loss. Other testers don't report this, and latency is a consistent 15ms average (up to occasional 30 or so max). The Fritz! reports 8ms to the cab, consistent wih a ping test on this site.
4. Modem doesn't report any tones above 8.5kHz (which I assume accounts for the low attainable upload).

Having written this out I'm convinced it's just the natural line characteristics, and as it's alll suitable for my use (no gaming, at least yet) trying anything on with the ISP would be a waste of their and my time. But I'll ask now anyway.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin

Edited by smurf46 (Sun 22-Jan-12 10:27:32)

Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 10:41:15
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Hi smurf46,

In reply to a post by smurf46:
At first glance my connection seems perfect (or as close as I can get) with (from a Fritz! modem) 42 att/40 synch download, 7 att/6.6 sync upload @ 600m from cab. The underground line is decripid, though, with numerous repair joints at each of the 50 houses back to the cab. (ADSL2 never managed more than 4.5Mbps/3.5Mbps throughput at 3.4km from the exchange and a 47 att). Occasional resyncs are 10-15 days apart. My VDSL service is not subject to any throttling or speed restriction (IDNet).

Just curious, why are you using a Fritz rather than the usual Huawei HG612?

The slight causes for concern are:
1. although the BT speedtester shows a throughput up to 35Mbps, all other speedtesters range between 6Mbps and 14Mbps. The Fritz! own monitoring of throughput shows it can occasionally attain up to 35Mbps, but more often in the range 8-17Mbps, measured during heavy downloads. EDIT: PCs attached by ethernet cable to the router.

I have a much slower connection than yours, but speedtest.net reports between 23Mb & 27.5Mb for my connection (dependent on current sync speed & time of day).
2. I know and expect the line is interleaved (INP=3) but the FEC error count is usuallly around or above ten thousand per minute when the connection is "idle". They're lower sometimes in the hundreds under heavy downloads. However CRC errors usually mount at 0.2-0.5 per minute, and error seconds several hundred over a couple of days, but seriously errored seconds keep in single figures over a few days.

INP = Impulse Noise protection.
D: (if your modem reports it) is the Interleaving depth. (1 = OFF)

Having written this out I'm convinced it's just the natural line characteristics, and as it's alll suitable for my use (no gaming, at least yet) trying anything on with the ISP would be a waste of their and my time. But I'll ask now anyway.


If you have access to an unlocked HG612, are a Windows user & if you haven't already seen them, there are a couple of threads in the IDNetters forum that may possibly assist with your queries:-

Interleaving

&

Huawei HG612 Modem - Stats & Graphs for Windows Users

Paul

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Sun 22-Jan-12 10:45:02)

Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 11:03:05
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Hi Eagle. Yes I've read the IDNetters posts (and those on here) and had a merry old time trying to correlate the Fritz! data with that from the the unlocked modems. Not easy as the Fritz produces its own graphs and doesn't like hacking. The Fritz was bought back in the summer before the unlocking became popular. I also suspect it might be managing the line well as shown by the sync speeds, and the ability (if correctly reported) to download from time to time at up to 35Mbps. Its sync is +10Mbps above the Huawei modem, though I believe 5 of that is accounted for by the bandwidth change,

There's nothing I can see to tell me the interleaving depth.

Main difference I suspect is that my data seems to be in a consistent pattern, which is why I suspect just a poor line, with lots of crosstalk inteference in my case, rather than an identifiable fault?

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 22-Jan-12 11:10:46
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
I rarely do much "downloading". Take a look at my live BQM in my sig, on IDNet.

I query your 42dB downstream attenuation. That seems unlikely on two counts. First the engineer's JDSU here showed ~0.6m from the cabinet, same as yours, and attenuation 17dB, and second, on 47dB for 3.4km from the exchange aren't the two figures incompatible?

My speed test speeds, wired, are usually around the 35Mbps mark from any tester. Wireless can be very variable. Just after midnigght can be suspect even wired, with slightly increased packet loss - as you can see. I believe I'm on Fast Path - I think I remember a short period wneh it jumped a few ms for a while, interleaved, but I may be thinking of Billford's, also IDNet, that swaps or used ti swap up and down at regular intervals.

Wireless tests, now.
tbb
Speedtest.net
BT:-
Download speedachieved during the test was - 35862 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12000-38715 Kbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is -38715 Kbps
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8032 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10000 Kbps

IP Profile was always 38717, I think the change to 38715 coincided with the swap to 17a, as my upstream estimate on the BTW checker rose a lot around the time I noticed it. Downstream estimate is unchanged I think, at 28.9Mbps or similar.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 11:17:44
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I rarely do much "downloading". Take a look at my live BQM in my sig, on IDNet.

I query your 42dB downstream attenuation.


Sorry: the 42 att is 42Mbps attainable download speed reported by the modem; the download attenuation is 20dB. Apologies again I can't see how to tidy up the link but my current TBBQM is My Broadband Ping

The BT test results seem similar to your at
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
> Download speedachieved during the test was - 33370 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12000-38187 Kbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is -38187 Kbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 5487 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10000 Kbps

Where we differ is with TBB/Speedtest net and even speed.io which were compatible with the BT test until November, but since then at all times of the day are consistently below 10Mbps on the download (e.g. last night 8.6Mbps on TBB), although the upload is comparable. Would my implementing IPv6 on the router make a difference as that is the only change?

Just done a couple more tests now immediately afterwards and Speedtester gives 7.37 down/5.4 up, and TBBs IPv6 test (which I have to use) 2.31/5.37 (tested twice as I didn't believe it).

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin

Edited by smurf46 (Sun 22-Jan-12 12:07:14)

Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 15:36:41
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Cheers smurf46,

In reply to a post by smurf46:
The Fritz was bought back in the summer before the unlocking became popular. I also suspect it might be managing the line well as shown by the sync speeds, and the ability (if correctly reported) to download from time to time at up to 35Mbps. Its sync is +10Mbps above the Huawei modem, though I believe 5 of that is accounted for by the bandwidth change,

Do you know if the 10Mb higher sync speed from the Fritz over the HG612 is still the case?

It would be handy to know, if just on a "my modem's better than your modem" basis smile

If you ever do test one against the other, could you please let us know the resulting sync & throughput speeds?

The HG612 is supposedly capable of handling the 30a profile (even higher frequencies) that may be trialled/rolled out in the not too distant future.
Apparently there has been a little doubt cast over how well it would actually perform though.


Paul.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 22-Jan-12 17:06:30
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
I don't know if the IPv6 would cause a problem, but if all was well before it and isn't now ...?

What download speed to you get from test files such as at tbb and Zen?

Your BQM is horrible. As well as mine, look at Bill's.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 17:14:57
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Paul, I've been thinking of the same comparison (though not for the moment as I'm in the middle of 'flu). There is a spec of the same Ikanos chipset in the Fritz! that goes up to 30a profile, and they say is optimised for the 30MHz spectrum, but the modem doesn't appear to use it yet. Wouldn't be any use on my line though. I could also try to paste a link to a shot of the GUI graphs (as long as I can find a suitable host!).
Mervyn.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 17:35:12
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Hi Mervyn,

In reply to a post by smurf46:
Paul, I've been thinking of the same comparison (though not for the moment as I'm in the middle of 'flu). There is a spec of the same Ikanos chipset in the Fritz! that goes up to 30a profile, and they say is optimised for the 30MHz spectrum, but the modem doesn't appear to use it yet. Wouldn't be any use on my line though. I could also try to paste a link to a shot of the GUI graphs (as long as I can find a suitable host!).
Mervyn.


You & I are both on the 17a profile.
You can sync at 40Mb (just about?).
I can only sync at just below 30Mb (at best).

The 3rd (higher) frequency band plan is discovered at "Discovery (Initial) Phase, but not actually used at Medley (Final) Phase.

Users with "better" connections than us get "something" from the D3 band plan, some doing incredibly well with Attainable rates in excess of 120Mb (still currently capped at 40Mb).

I have recently signed up with Photobucket (free storage) & provide a couple of links so that you can see the difference between good & not so good.

17a - Good Connection

17a - Poor Connection


& just for the hell of it:-


Ongoing stats - Poor Connection


Paul.

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Sun 22-Jan-12 17:40:28)

Standard User smurf46
(member) Sun 22-Jan-12 17:43:24
Print Post

Re: FTTC: should I report a fault?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Roberto, I know my BQM is horrible!

But why? I've heard of one other person, who had a similar (undiagnosed) issue on the 8c profile, which was cured on the move to 17a. Mine is the other way round, packet loss was clear before the 17a change, then appeared immediately after the resync. But as I achieved no overall speed increase, I can't figure out why? And why do testers show zero packet loss?

The only stupid theory I have is that the multiple joints cause a sort of crosstalk mayhem, but when a download "gets going" over a period of time the signal somehow has a greater force (rather as lesser proportion of the water escapes from a jet down a leaky pipe than a trickle). I'm not a physicist as you can tell!

I'll do some test files, doh! Though if it helps I have had JDasts programme running occasional automated tests (which uses TBB test files) and it achieves between 6 and 17 Mbps and is usually better than the TBB and Speedtest.net manual tests. No joy with TBB but Zen's 100MB test file downoaded at 3Mb/sec.

Thinking about it both issues started on the change to the 17a profile.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to