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Standard User TheValk
(learned) Tue 12-Jun-12 20:48:24
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Possible cause of very low profile


[link to this post]
 
FTTC was installed in my area beginning of April this year and I signed up for it immediately. The BT Openreach site predicted around 32Mbps to my address and when the Openreach engineer installed it it synced at 29Mbps which I was very happy with. Only getting 5Mbps on adsl2+

I am round 650M from the cabinet and about 1.7K from the exchange.

For a week or two I was getting around this figure as I checked constantly quite thrilled with the speed.
However, I soon got bored with daily speedtests so I just used it.

Last week I downloaded a CD image and noted that my speed seemed to stay around 15Mbps. I ran a speedtest at speedtest.net and got about 14Mbps down and 2.5Mbps up.

I checked with the BT test site and my profile was set at 14.52Mbps.

I reported to my ISP, (ADSL24) and they passed it on to their supplier who ran tests and passed it forward to BT who again, ran tests.

The upshot is that no fault could be found and a visit by a BT Openreach engineer is recommended with all the potential for expense that might entail.

Before I go ahead, could some kind soul put my mind at rest as to the likelihood that my domestic setup could be at fault.

The BT supplied Modem is an ECI model. This is plugged directly into the Openreach supplied master socket and I have it attached to a Billion BiPAC 7800N router by a 2 meter ethernet cable. A Panasonic wireless phone is plugged into the Master phone socket. They all sit next to each other on a side table. Various devices are fed from the router by wireless and ethernet.

The speedtest was run from a PC connected to the router by ethernet and also directly into the modem. The test results were broadly the same.

On occasion during the last month or two I have lost the internet and the router has indicated that it could not log on to my ISP. Leaving it to recover by itself did not work.

Continuous repeated
Apr 24 08:00:35 daemon pppd[558]: Doing disconnect
Apr 24 08:00:38 daemon pppd[558]: PPP: Start to connect ...
Apr 24 08:01:01 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't get channel number: Transport endpoint is not connected
Apr 24 08:01:01 daemon pppd[558]: PPP: PPP Server No Response !!!
Apr 24 08:01:01 daemon pppd[558]: Doing disconnect
Apr 24 08:01:04 daemon pppd[558]: PPP: Start to connect ...
Apr 24 08:01:27 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't get channel number: Transport endpoint is not connected
Apr 24 08:01:27 daemon pppd[558]: PPP: PPP Server No Response !!!
in the router log.

Rebooting the router did not help and although the Modem showed a solid DSL light, recycling the power fixed the problem until the next time. Maybe half a dozen times in two months recycling of the modem was required to regain internet connection.

This evening, after reading a post on this forum I tried turning of the modem, unplugging the router and leaving it for half hour. Then I re-powered the modem without connecting the router. The DSL light on the modem began flashing and was still flashing 15 minutes later. Another power cycle fixed that and it steadied. Replugged the router and the speedtest and profile was still around 15Mbps.

Any advice on how I might proceed would be helpful before I risk £130 .
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(committed) Wed 13-Jun-12 06:51:54
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
32 Mb & 29Mb seem to be quite low speeds for only 650m from the cabinet.

I am between 900m & 1000m from my cabinet & my estimate is 30Mb.
Actual sync speed is usually around that, sometimes a little higher.

The reason for low installation sync speed anyway could be that you are actually further than 650m from the cabinet (you may even be connected to a different cabinet).

Or it could be that your connection is all aluminium cabling.

Or it could be there is a "fault" on the line that wasn't detected by the installing engineer's basic tests.

The fact that your connection speed dropped & seems to have stuck at 15Mb suggests a connection that experiences very many errors/resyncs etc., thus causing DLM to set a low sync speed to try to ensure stability i.e. it MAY have something like a high resistance fault that doesn't completely disable broadband & internet..

The only realistic way to attempt to diagnose matters for yourself is to unlock the modem (Assuming it is the Huawei HG612 model) & have a look at its stats, particularly bit-loading, QLN, SNR, Hlog, Line & Signal attenuation.

If there is nothing obvious standing out from your current stats, if you are a Windows user, you could graph any changes in noise levels, error counts etc. by auto-logging your stats continuously over say a few days at a time.
That may highlight either general "issues" or issues that occur at the same time every day/night.

Someone with access to the post code checker may be able to confirm which cabinet you are actually connected to for you to check a realistic distance.

What is your exact IP Profile from the BT tester?
From that we could roughly calculate your sync speed.
If IP Profile just happens to be 14.52Mb, it would suggest a sync speed capped by DLM at 14999K (15Mb).

Does the connection ever drop when using the phone, either receiving or dialling a call?

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Wed 13-Jun-12 06:59:06)

Standard User TheValk
(learned) Wed 13-Jun-12 11:33:32
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the very detailed reply Bald_Eagle1.

According to Microsoft Maps I am 0.4 miles from the cabinet, so about 700 Yards.
My Post code is NR19 1ES which is served by the Dereham Exchange and if I remember correctly I am on Cabinet 5 on Shipdham Road.

The speed on installation back in April 16th was around 28Mbps which was close to the BT estimated speed for my address of 31.6Mbps so it must have synced at that at the time.

The modem is an ECI model so no stats can be obtained unfortunately.

The BT Tester gives
13.83 Mbps Download
IP Profile for your line is - 14.52 Mbps

2.69 Mbps Upload
Upstream Rate IP Profile for your line is - 10 MBps

I have a Speedtest.net result from April 17th a day after the installation which shows
Ping 49 ms
Download 30.24 Mbps
Upload 3.38 Mbps

So the line has degraded by 50 % over about two months, either slowly or suddenly.

The connection seems unaffected by phone use. When it drops the modem shows no outward sign of a problem, the DSL light fully steady.
The router goes into a loop as explained in my original post and will not recover until the Modem is powered off and then on again.
I include here a log from the router following a modem reboot, the first time it locked out I believe.

IP addresses redacted.

Apr 24 08:13:49 daemon pppd[558]: PPP: Start to connect ...
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: PPP server detected.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: PPP session established.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Using interface pppewan_1
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Connect: ppp_ewan_1 <--> eth0
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MTU to 1500.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: PPP LCP UP.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MTU to 1500.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: PPP LCP UP.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MTU to 1500.
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 24 08:13:57 daemon pppd[558]: PPP LCP UP.
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon pppd[558]: local IP address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon pppd[558]: remote IP address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon pppd[558]: primary DNS address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon pppd[558]: secondary DNS address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon dnsmasq[91]: using nameserver xxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon dnsmasq[91]: using nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:58 daemon pppd[558]: Received valid IP address from server. Connection UP.
Apr 24 08:13:59 user syslog: begin: interface: ppp_ewan_1 go to up
Apr 24 08:13:59 daemon dnsmasq[91]: using nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:59 daemon dnsmasq[91]: using nameserver xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Apr 24 08:13:59 daemon UPNPD[4618]: received signal 15, good-bye
Apr 24 08:14:01 daemon UPNPD[9604]: HTTP listening on port 2800
Apr 24 08:14:04 user syslog: end: interface: ppp_ewan_1 go to up
Apr 24 08:14:15 user syslog: web: ::ffff:xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx logout
Apr 24 08:45:23 syslog -- MARK --

Once again, thanks for the advice


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Standard User TheValk
(learned) Wed 13-Jun-12 13:55:20
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
Just been reading a thread on this forum that mentions crosstalk.

The copper connection from cabinet to home is by duct emerging from poles and then overhead to premises.
When I had the fttc installed in April, the engineer told me I was the first in town to get it so no crosstalk or contention?

If I check with inSSider I have more than 15 wireless networks within reach of my house. I have noticed Openreach vans around here quite regularly so I suspect quite a few have upgraded to fiber.

Would crosstalk explain such a drop in sync speed?
If so, would BT consider this to be a fault that requires rectification?
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(committed) Wed 13-Jun-12 16:52:23
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
It's a shame about having the ECI modem as it will be quite difficult to explain with no stats to refer to.

I don't believe crosstalk should suddenly or gradually reduce your sync speeds to the 15Mb you now seem to be capped at.

I think you may possibly have a couple of issues there.
If the connection drops but the modem stays connected, the issue would appear to be the router.

I was led to believe the MTU for FTTC connections should be 1492, not the 1500 that your router seems to be attempting.

Pre-Windows 7, I believe Windows defaults to using 1500. Hence lower THROUGHPUT speeds from XP & possibly Vista machines.

Apparently Windows 7 auto-detects the MTU settings as specified in the router.

If you are not a Windows user, I have no idea about other operating system settings.

What are the router's MTU settings?



However, as your sync speed is only 15Mb (probably actually 14.999Mb) as confirmed by your IP Profile of 14.52Mb, that would indicate "other" issues such as a physical line fault (maybe a high resistance cable joint etc.), many modem resyncs, "noise" interference & so on.

FYI, IP Profile is approx 96.79% of sync speed for FTTC connections.

Regarding crosstalk issues, I don't believe BT would consider that to be a fault as such.

Do you hear any noise on a telephone quiet line test?
Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Wed 13-Jun-12 18:13:25
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheValk:
According to Microsoft Maps I am 0.4 miles from the cabinet, so about 700 Yards.
My Post code is NR19 1ES which is served by the Dereham Exchange and if I remember correctly I am on Cabinet 5 on Shipdham Road.
By interrogating the December 2011 document, I can confirm that you are correct with respect to your PCP / FTTC cabinet number --
EADER,DEREHAM,NR191ES,{EADER}{P5},0,100%,14.65,7a,Yes,FTTC
As you have the attention of Bald_Eagle1, I shall say very little else, other than the following:

(1) The reference to the MTU setting in your log file is suspicious.
(2) Have you tested with a computer connected directly to the ECI modem? I.e. No router and just have the computer establish the PPPoE connection?

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Wed 13-Jun-12 18:19:24
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
(1) The reference to the MTU setting in your log file is suspicious.
That seems to be common with Billion routers on a PPPoE connection- I get it on my 7800N.

I did a bit of googling when I first saw it; it doesn't appear to be relevant to anything in particular except possibly that the usual MTU for PPPoE is 1492.

Bill
bill@thinkbroadband.com __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQM
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User balami
(committed) Wed 13-Jun-12 19:59:01
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
I am on the St Ives (Cambs) exchange. I too was the first to be activated on cab 10 and have seen a small drop in attainable rate as more people come online (about 8 - 10%).

The fact you have to power cycle your modem doesn't sound right. Mine has been on for over 30 days despite having a few outages. The connection has either come back by itself or by rebooting the router.

Sounds like you have got a line fault, but since you are still getting a reasonable service you might want to monitor it for a bit, it might improve when we get some dry weather. Stats from the modem would be helpful might be worth seeing if you can source an hg612 for testing.

Let us all know how it goes

Mark
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(committed) Wed 13-Jun-12 20:04:18
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: balami] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by balami:
Sounds like you have got a line fault, but since you are still getting a reasonable service you might want to monitor it for a bit, it might improve when we get some dry weather. Stats from the modem would be helpful might be worth seeing if you can source an hg612 for testing.


I definitely second Mark's comments.
Huawei HG612 modems can be occasionally obtained via Ebay at "reasonable" prices.
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(committed) Wed 13-Jun-12 20:08:18
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
As you have the attention of Bald_Eagle1, I shall say very little else, other than the following:


Hmmm.
That's not necessarily a good thing. I have a need for stats, more stats, graphs & even more stats smile
Standard User TheValk
(learned) Thu 14-Jun-12 10:26:00
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
(2) Have you tested with a computer connected directly to the ECI modem? I.e. No router and just have the computer establish the PPPoE connection?


Yes, my ISP had me check that out. With a Windows 7 PC plugged directly into the LAN socket of the modem the BT test results are the same.

I did recently power off the modem, leave it for half hour and power it back on without anything plugged into the LAN. It ran through its light sequence and then stalled with the DSL light flashing constantly. Without being able to get at the modem log I can only assume this indicated a failure to sync at all. Another power cycle got it to come up but on plugging in the router the stats and test were the same.


So,really it seems my problem is this.

1) I had what appeared to be stable 28 Mbps connection day one which lasted at least a week or so when I got bored with the daily testing and gloating and stopped monitoring.

2) Sometime during the next two months my connection dropped by half to a constant 15 Mbps. This happened either suddenly or gradually.

3) The only clue as to the reason is the occasional (maybe weekly) failure of the router to establish a connection and the fix is a power cycle of the modem. There is no outward indication from the modem that there is a problem.

4) I cannot get the modem stats as BT, in their perverted wisdom, have locked out the modems.

Nothing has changed with the setup within the home.

My solutions seemed to be.

1) Wait and see if it spontaneously recovers. This happened once before with a poor ADSL2 throughput that BT claimed they could not diagnose.

2) Beg, borrow or steal a more useful modem. May even buy one.

3) Get BT Openreach to come out and run local diagnostics and be prepared to fork out 100 notes when they say, "no fault detected, the line is performing within spec".

Thanks to all who replied.

Couple of questions.
If the fault is external and it fixes itself, does the modem instantly sense this and re-sync at a higher rate or does it require a modem reboot to achieve this?

Has anyone any experience with this modem on BT FTTC?
Billion BiPAC 8200M VDSL2 Fibre Broadband Modem

Edited by TheValk (Thu 14-Jun-12 14:37:38)

Standard User burakkucat
(experienced) Thu 14-Jun-12 17:34:08
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheValk:
I did recently power off the modem, leave it for half hour and power it back on without anything plugged into the LAN. It ran through its light sequence and then stalled with the DSL light flashing constantly. Without being able to get at the modem log I can only assume this indicated a failure to sync at all.
ACK. I can confirm that a flashing DSL LED signifies that the modem & DSLAM are still in training mode and sync has not been achieved.

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User balami
(committed) Thu 14-Jun-12 22:22:35
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I managed to acquire a spare modem which I have left with the standard firmware. I can see they are listed on the openreach price list at £26.00 ex VAT to the ISP, though no guarentee you wouldn't get another ECI.

I did ask my ISP Zen whether I could purchase a spare my argument being that BT would take 24hrs to replace a failed unit, but they couldn't provide one.

I know your neck of the woods well as I grew up in Swanton Morley, my parents are still there. if I aquire a further spare then I'll let you know.

I believe that if the fault clears you wont see an improvement until the line re-trains. The attainable rate reported by the modem (which you can't access) will improve as and when the line quality changes.

There should be no harm rebooting the modem every few days, best to do it during daylight hours when interference is lowest. If it is water related, just wait for the summer to start.

Regards,

Mark.

Regards,

Mark.
Standard User TheValk
(learned) Fri 15-Jun-12 09:28:57
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: balami] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by balami:
I believe that if the fault clears you wont see an improvement until the line re-trains. The attainable rate reported by the modem (which you can't access) will improve as and when the line quality changes.

There should be no harm rebooting the modem every few days, best to do it during daylight hours when interference is lowest. If it is water related, just wait for the summer to start.


Thanks for that Mark.

I did try powering off the modem for an hour yesterday evening and then back on with the router unplugged. It sat there for half hour with only the power light lit.
In the end I plugged in the router and did a ten second power off/on and it recovered to its usual poor connection.

I will probably get the Billion Modem. A spare is always useful and it promises plug and pray connection. I was hoping someone had some experience of this modem but its seems not.

Local paper is running a story about a whole road in town down for days with water in the BT conduit so maybe when the deluge lifts, so might my sync.

Regards
Standard User TheValk
(learned) Sat 23-Jun-12 18:17:57
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Re: Possible cause of very low profile


[re: TheValk] [link to this post]
 
Just to finish off this thread, Openreach were called in and found a short in the cable within the conduit about 15 Mtrs from the pole.

They rerouted the connection through a spare cable from the junction box to the pole and bingo, back on a (hopefully) stable 25 Mbps connection.
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