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Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 25-Sep-12 20:30:42
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FTTC VDSL stats


[link to this post]
 
Anyone about who can look at these and see if I'm getting all I can?

I believe my copper line distance is 500m, probably 600m given where the FTTC cab was installed :-/

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/MisterReder...

James BT Infinity 2 - 19/9/2012 - Install-sync: 52/12 - Test: 50/10 - Est: 44.6/6.5 Mbps
13 years of broadband - ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(16M)/BT FTTC(50M)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 25-Sep-12 20:56:09
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Look fair to me. Downstream interleaving is on.

I'm almost exactly 600m away as well. Just done these.

Very clean D-side here.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Tue 25-Sep-12 21:11:00
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Look fair to me. Downstream interleaving is on.

I suspected as much. I went to a friends on the weekend, Sat when I left the downloads were peaking at 49/50 megabit in various testers, and when I came back there was a LOT of standing water and more coming down, and I was maxing out at 47/48. I didn't check profile after install, but that's when I decided to hack and get stats.
I'm almost exactly 600m away as well.

Hee, that's interesting. When I had the SFI visit in 2010 he showed me the line plant diagram on his toughbook which showed where the cables ran; and I know they're dead straight down my road turn left, and halfway down there hit the PCP!

The PCP is according to google maps 500m from my building, so add easily another 50m or so to get into my 2nd floor flat (no poles here) then another 50 (twice) to get to the FTTC cab and back - could be 650 or more.
Very clean D-side here.

Amazing, you get pretty close to theoretical max - I'm getting 10meg less. Although its good, I was only predicted 44 / 6 so anything higher than those is good.

Thanks!

James BT Infinity 2 - 19/9/2012 - Install-sync: 52/12 - Test: 50/10 - Est: 44.6/6.5 Mbps
13 years of broadband - ntl:(512k/1M)/BTbusiness(2M)/Metronet(2M)/Bulldog(8M/16M)/BE(16M)/BT FTTC(50M)


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Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:34:13
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
then another 50 (twice) to get to the FTTC cab and back

You only need to count it once - getting to the modem in the FTTC cabinet. The cable back will only carry the voice component....
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:50:28
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
In reply to a post by jchamier:
then another 50 (twice) to get to the FTTC cab and back

You only need to count it once - getting to the modem in the FTTC cabinet. The cable back will only carry the voice component....
Eh?

PSTN from exchange >> PCP
FTTC from (an) exchange >> FTTC cab (DSLAM)
Voice goes PCP >> DSLAM< signals merged
Merged goes DSLAM >> PCP >> Premises.

Ah, yes you're right, just the way you put it confused me. By talking about the voice going upstream from the premises, rather than the VDSL2 downstream to the premises.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.0/13.9Mbps @ 600m.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Tue 25-Sep-12 22:57:27
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Look fair to me. Downstream interleaving is on.

I suspected as much. I went to a friends on the weekend, Sat when I left the downloads were peaking at 49/50 megabit in various testers, and when I came back there was a LOT of standing water and more coming down, and I was maxing out at 47/48. I didn't check profile after install, but that's when I decided to hack and get stats.

The stats say that downstream is running at 63/80 (79%) for end-user throughput, and 17/80 (21%) as the overhead for the parity bits used by the forward-error-correction process that is turned on alongside interleaving.

That would account for the difference in scale between the max & actual speeds quite well. It also sounds pretty high to me - about the highest I've seen (though I've seen it choose smaller RS block sizes than 80).
Standard User R0NSKI
(committed) Wed 26-Sep-12 10:43:17
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Well your both doing better than me, and I'm only 450 - 500 meters at the most.

Attainable: Upstream 10035Kbps Downstream 51636 Kbps
Sync Rate: Upstream 9995Kbps Dwonstream 44596 Kbps


All my graphs can be found here on Dropbox, although the last day or so has not yet been uploaded.

Standard User Ixel
(regular) Wed 26-Sep-12 11:44:54
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
According to my Fritz!Box 7390 I'm 1352ft (approximately 412m) from the cabinet, although walking distance is roughly 100m.

My stats, though attainable seems to be hard to figure out as I am getting some different values...
Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
cpe> 11
Downstream line rate: 90136 kbpsUpstream line rate: 19832 kbps
Bearer0 Downstream payload rate: 0 kbpsBearer1 Downstream payload rate: 66968 kbps
Bearer0 Upstream payload rate: 0 kbpsBearer1 Upstream payload rate: 17000 kbps
Downstream attainable payload rate: 66968 kbpsDownstream attainable line rate: 97176 kbps
Downstream Training Margin: 6.0 dBDownstream Line Protection (Bearer1 Path): 2.0 DMT Symbols
Upstream Line Protection (Bearer1 Path): 0.0 DMT SymbolsDownstream delay: 7.5 ms
Upstream delay: 0.0 msTx total power 6.5 dbm
FE Tx total power 12.0 dbmVDSL Estimated Loop Length : 1352 ft
G.Hs Estimated Near End Loop Length : 3512 ftG.Hs Estimated Far End Loop Length :0 ft
No. of Upstream Bands...: 3No. of Downstream Bands.: 3


Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
cpe> 13
SNR Margin: 4.8 dBAttenuation: 14.7 dB
Avg SNR Margin: 6.0 dBAvg SNR: 32.0 dB
 SNR Margin (SNRMpb-0): 6.0 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-1): 5.9 dBSNR Margin (SNRMpb-2): 6.1 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-3): 0.0 dBSNR Margin (SNRMpb-4): 0.0 dB
 Line Attenuation (LATNpb-0): 9.4 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-1): 27.7 dBLine Attenuation (LATNpb-2): 43.7 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-3): 0.0 dBLine Attenuation (LATNpb-4): 0.0 dB
 Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-0): 9.8 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-1): 27.4 dBSignal Attenuation (SATNpb-2): 44.4 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-3): 0.0 dBSignal Attenuation (SATNpb-4): 0.0 dB
 Downstream attainable Line rate : 90608 kbps Downstream attainable payload rate : 67584 kbps


I imagine the correct downstream attinable rate is '90608 kbps' (without interleaving delay/impulse noise protection).
Standard User R0NSKI
(committed) Wed 26-Sep-12 12:55:56
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
With those figures, I'd say the 100 meters is most likely correct.

If it really was 412 meters I think I'd rush out and get a Fritz! box smile

Edited by R0NSKI (Wed 26-Sep-12 12:57:21)

Standard User WWWombat
(experienced) Wed 26-Sep-12 18:04:28
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Re: FTTC VDSL stats


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I'd agree on that kind of distance that the Fritzbox is estimating - at least if it is standard copper.

My current line is around 400 metres too, and can't really be any shorter or longer. The Huawei shows downstream signal attenuation figures of 11, 28 and 43 dB - almost identical to yours. We get an actual 80/20 speed, with a max of 82/25. No interleaving, and very few errors.

I had FTTC at a previous property, which *did* get errors (and DLM selected an interleaved profile that sync'ed st s reduced rate of around 36/10) on the original 8c profile (ie 8MHz). When BT changed to the 17a profile, the modem could sustain a full 40/10 sync - the interleaving was still present, but the extra frequencies helped hide the additional bandwidth used by the parity data. (The 80/20 wasn't available to trial at the time we were in that property).

The old line was about 550 metres. The signal attenuation figures there were 14, 34 and 53dB. The Huawei there reported a max of 61/16, while sustaining 40/10, and was given high interleaving with 23% overhead - so probably would only end up sustaining about 50/15 on a new 80/20 product.

Of course, the Fritzbox may be estimating the distance based on the attenuation (rather than, say, reflection timing), so it wouldn't be a surprise to get that result. If you are fed by aluminium, say, then the attenuation would be lower for the same distance, and any consequent distance estimates would be equally off.
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