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Standard User Ixel
(member) Sun 04-Nov-12 09:21:01
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FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[link to this post]
 
I was wondering, based on observations, if anyone knows roughly what the ES or CRC's have to be before DLM may take action in a negative way? The reason I ask this is because, for the moment, I've managed to get myself back on 'fastpath', albeit with a speed cap. I'll explain what I did in order for this to perhaps encourage DLM to get me back there to start with.

Approximately 10 days ago I decided to go back to my Fritz!Box and cap myself to a much lower speed, eventually I set myself to 40 megabits downstream, with no cap on the upstream. My objective was to keep the error seconds under at least 75, or further if I could (under 50). A few days into that experiment DLM decided to reduce my INP from 4 to 3. After 7 days into the experiment I lost hope with DLM switching me back so I decided to go back to the HG612 since it synced better and surprisingly had less errors than my Fritz!Box, though it was capped at 60 megabits downstream due to the DLM altering the min/max rates as a result of me doing so. A few days later (today in other words) at 4am or so DLM resynced me, and to my amazement, though it hasn't removed the downstream cap, it did remove INP and delay altogether! Sadly, I fear I may lose 'fastpath' as my error seconds have gone up to over 100 ES in around 5 hours of sync uptime frown. If that rate of ES continues I am expecting to probably get around 300-400 ES in a 24 hour period I imagine.

I've also read, on the TalkTalk forum, that Biohead did a test where his cabinet, like mine, is ECI hardware. He was using an ECI modem but wanted to use Huawei presumably for line stats, so he lost 'fastpath' apparently during that time of using the Huawei. When he went back to the ECI he shortly got back 'fastpath'. I wonder if it's worth me finding an ECI modem on eBay or somewhere and trying that on my line?

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BusyBox v1.9.1 (2010-10-15 17:59:06 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands. 
# xdslcmd info --statsxdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2Max:    Upstream rate = 27652 Kbps, Downstream rate = 85332 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59999 Kbps 
Link Power State:       L0Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17aTPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ONLine Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        13.0            9.7Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4            4.8                        VDSL2 framing
                        Path 0B:              239             236
M:              1               1T:              64              5
R:              0               16S:              0.1273          0.3771
L:              15081           5410D:              1               1
I:              240             255N:              240             255
                        Counters                        Path 0
OHF:            9133198         310238OHFErr:         127             57
RS:             0               542951RSCorr:         0               406
RSUnCorr:       0               0 
                        Path 0HEC:            915             0
OCD:            0               0LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2153866054              0Data Cells:     690838          0
Drop Cells:     0Bit Errors:     0               0
 ES:             156             362
SES:            5               0UAS:            249             249
AS:             18678 
                        Path 0INP:            0.00            0.00
PER:            2.03            6.12delay:          0.00            0.00
OR:             90.32           203.67 
Bitswap:        203             12 
Total time = 1 days 14 hours 55 min 2 secFEC:            0               0
CRC:            127             0ES:             156             362
SES:            5               0UAS:            249             249
LOS:            4               0LOF:            5               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 2 secFEC:            0               0
CRC:            5               0ES:             3               3
SES:            0               0UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0LOF:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 secFEC:            0               0
CRC:            8               0ES:             7               1
SES:            0               0UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0LOF:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 14 hours 55 min 2 secFEC:            0               0
CRC:            127             0ES:             113             138
SES:            5               0UAS:            22              22
LOS:            4               0LOF:            5               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 secFEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0ES:             43              224
SES:            0               0UAS:            227             227
LOS:            0               0LOF:            0               0
Since Link time = 5 hours 11 min 17 secFEC:            0               406
CRC:            127             57ES:             100             50
SES:            0               0UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0LOF:            0               0
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 04-Nov-12 10:31:26
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
I wonder if it's worth me finding an ECI modem on eBay or somewhere and trying that on my line?
Can't see why not. Go for it.


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Standard User simon194
(committed) Sun 04-Nov-12 11:01:18
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
I'm running a Huawei modem on and ECI DSLAM and if interleaving gets applied to the line for whatever reason it usually switches back to fastpath within about 4 weeks, usually less.

Mind are those your current stats you posted because it's already on fastpath it think? Line 31: which I believe is the interleave depth is set to 1 which is fastpath. I'm sure I will be corrected if I've got it wrong.


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Standard User Ixel
(member) Sun 04-Nov-12 11:05:51
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: simon194] [link to this post]
 
Yes they are the current stats. I was on interleaving however with an INP of 3, which for a while I've been trying various ways to encourage DLM to put me back on to INP 0, no interleaving depth (1) and no delay. Currently loving my low ping, and would happily live with less speed (between 40-60 megabits downstream with 20 megabits upstream) for the lowest possible ping if there was an option to specify a permanent capped rate profile at the cabinet.

I may buy an ECI modem tomorrow though, if there are any for sale still on eBay at that time, and unlocked if I can find one. I have a strong feeling though that based on my expected ES after 24 hours that DLM will soon put me back to INP 2 or 3 at the very least.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 04-Nov-12 11:58:50
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
Are you using a game server that applies compensation for latency?

I've seen several reports on here that a very low ping can cause them to overdo that and you end up worse off in the game than before.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 52.9/14.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 04-Nov-12 11:59:17)

Standard User Ixel
(member) Sun 04-Nov-12 13:13:40
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I mainly play Team Fortress 2 and host 12 TF2 Mann vs Machine servers on my home server. This engine does have lag compensation in it, but I don't notice any bad effects from having a lower ping. Interesting point though.
Standard User R0NSKI
(experienced) Sun 04-Nov-12 14:34:12
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: Ixel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ixel:
I may buy an ECI modem tomorrow though, if there are any for sale still on eBay at that time, and unlocked if I can find one. I have a strong feeling though that based on my expected ES after 24 hours that DLM will soon put me back to INP 2 or 3 at the very least.


Don't know if it's the new type or old type ECI though

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150936594263

Standard User Ixel
(member) Sun 04-Nov-12 20:51:35
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. I've bought one. Hopefully it'll resolve the rather continuous and regular 1-2 CRC's every minute or two that I'm getting right now.
Standard User asbokid
(member) Mon 05-Nov-12 11:02:41
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It would be good to explore the line statistics provided by the ECI. Measurements for HLog, HLin, SNR, QLN and Bit Depth should be available for individual subcarriers. Perhaps they are not necessarily provided via that Unix pipe mechanism though. Though for the function of DSL itself, the measurements must be recorded somewhere by the modem though. Something to incorporate into your graphing tool, Ixel? BT Openreach has released a fairly complete source code tarball for the ECI and its Lantiq XWAY platform. Clues for obtaining very detailed line statistics should be in there.

cheers, a
Standard User Ixel
(member) Mon 05-Nov-12 12:41:06
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Re: FTTC DLM MTBE behaviour?


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the tips. I'm new to this pipe mechanism, but I will check out the source and see what I can make of it for adapting into a variant of my current unreleased C#.NET graphing/stats application.

On an additional note, I'm amazed that DLM didn't intervene this morning and re-apply INP, given my ES and CRC's were both about 600-700 range in a 24 hour period. Perhaps it has a delay before taking another action, or recognises that the CRC's themselves are not significantly high (e.g. 20+ per minute, where as mine are about 1-2 per minute). If Royal Mail are efficient then I should be receiving the unlocked ECI tomorrow.
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