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Standard User OldChapXS
(newbie) Mon 20-May-13 22:29:14
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Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[link to this post]
 
Back before I moved I lived around a mile from the exchange and the circuitous route of the line gave me around 4 Mb. I had to use VM frown

Now I am around 300m from the exchange and they tell me I still can't have good broadband because I am direct to the exchange therefore no FTTC

This particular exchange is one of maybe half a dozen in Plymouth each serving a local area but this leads me to ask:

What hope is there, for folks and businesses in this situation. When, if ever, will we be considered upgradeable too.

I do not know what the technical issues are but it seems perfectly viable to place a cabinet beside the racks in the exchange. There is surely room in the old Strowger room

I did ask about FTTP and would have paid the install costs but again I got the "No, you can't have that either"

Give me hope someone....Please. VM is just soooo oversubscribed

Edited by OldChapXS (Mon 20-May-13 22:29:46)

Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Tue 21-May-13 04:28:02
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: OldChapXS] [link to this post]
 
There is an OFCOM (I believe) regulation prohibiting VDSL being used on EO (exchange only) lines like yours.

To be honest, I'm completely confused why this regulation is there too. It could be something to do with crosstalk, but I can't see that making a huge difference in the grand scheme of things - there's always going to be some level of crosstalk and the VDSL2 and ADSL bands don't overlap AFIAK.

I think BTs original plan may of been to use FTTH for lines like yours. However, FTTH has proven to be so costly and full of hassle for virtually 0 commercial gain (they charge £9/month extra for BT infinity 160 vs fttc delivered 80 - yet it probably costs 50-100x as much to install per house passed) they've understandably, pulled back from that strategy.

Unless this band plan change happens I'm not sure what the new strategy could be. The government isn't going to intervene in these areas as they're 'not rural' and that seems to be where the focus lies for BT going forward with all the BDUK money and attention.
Standard User zom22
(newbie) Tue 21-May-13 07:44:47
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
I understood it, there was some problem of electrical/radio interference between the ADSL2 equipment and VDSL equipment if the two were placed in close proximity to each other.
Therefore a FTTC fibre cabinet could not be placed in the exchange itself as this was deemed to be too close to the ADSL2 stuff.
This is different from cable cross talk.

Solutions might be:

1. FTTP for those EO lines.

2. Where possible put in a mini-PCP cabinet some distance away if the local layout of the EO lines makes this possible and then fit one of these 10 or 20 line mini-dslams next to it. This would mean re-arrangeing the topography of the local network to divert EO lines to a new cabinet. Issues are simply cost: either from a total point of view or from a cost/per line viewpoint.
It's a bit like you deciding to move the position of your fuseboard in your house - and face diverting all the electrical cables to the new location.

3. The radical one: Upon all the cabinets in an exchange area being converted to FTTC, compulsorily move ALL broaband subscribers on to FTTC and decommission all the ADSL2/2+ equipment in the exchange. Then you can put a FTTC cabinet in the exchange building for the EO lines.
This would have the advantage that the power reduction masks presently applied to protect existing ADSL services co-exisitng with VDSL could be removed. Hence better VDSL service for those further away from the cabinet.


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Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 21-May-13 10:49:59
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: OldChapXS] [link to this post]
 
You've had mention about why EO lines can't get VDSL2 service direct from the exchange. That leaves the two options - either install native FTTP, or go for an FTTC solution (as everywhere else) after installing a PCP wiring cabinet in the path of the EO lines (known as "network rearrangement")

For short EO lines, the cabinet might sit just outside the exchange building. For long EO lines, they'd be better served by a cabinet placed near a cluster of properties - provided the cluster were large enough.

The problem is that both are more costly solutions, making it hard to justify within the limits of the commercial rollout.

The most likely solution is that you will be considered for an upgrade by network re-arrangement as part of the Devon and Somerset BDUK project. That project has indicated that, in terms of the order of upgrading within the project, such network re-arrangements will be done after the standard FTTC rollout (which will come after the commercial rollout).

Take a look at the slides attached to this article:
http://www.connectingdevonandsomerset.co.uk/latest-n...
Page 10 has the order of implementation.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-May-13 11:12:08
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
3. Sky and TalkTalk would not allow that, and would have cost implications of £8 / month for all broadband users

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 21-May-13 11:21:38
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/indust...

Exchange deployment limited to frequencies <3MHz and back in 2009 Openreach was only deploying using up to 7MHz
PSD masking already used to avoid hurting ADSL2+ in the bundles up to 2.2MHz

http://www.niccstandards.org.uk/files/current/ND1602...
Which is latest ANFP believe hints on page 41 of changes for EO lines with an appropriate mask so VDSL2 can be deployed inside the building. More masking would reduce potential speeds too.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User geo12
(newbie) Tue 21-May-13 12:04:43
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The solution they have come up with in Cornwall is to place cabinets outside the exchange and transfer EO lines to them. In my village WWMEVA the former EO lines really near the exchange are capable of getting upwards of 60Mbps+ download.I am 900 metres from the exchange and getting around 20Mbps down and around 2.5Mbps up.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 21-May-13 12:13:23
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
most of the NICC stuff predates VDSL2 deployment and just as they added a new section for cabinet based FTTC they could (and would) revise the exchange frequency plan if someone put forward a proposal to do so. There's a blank appendix waiting for EO lines.

I have read stuff from Openreach that said with 200m of wiring in the building many exchanges wouldn't have many users on EO lines that would benefit - distant estates will get low speeds and nearby properties do well on ADSL2+ - so the argument for not bothering was more economic than technical.

VDSL2 from exchanges is in the standards.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 21-May-13 12:14:52
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zom22:
3. The radical one: Upon all the cabinets in an exchange area being converted to FTTC, compulsorily move ALL broaband subscribers on to FTTC and decommission all the ADSL2/2+ equipment in the exchange. Then you can put a FTTC cabinet in the exchange building for the EO lines.
This would have the advantage that the power reduction masks presently applied to protect existing ADSL services co-exisitng with VDSL could be removed. Hence better VDSL service for those further away from the cabinet.

You don't need to do that, exchange DSLAMs that do both VDSL2 and ADSL2+ are standard.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User HarryHomers
(learned) Tue 21-May-13 12:17:28
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Re: Direct to exchange here, What hope...??


[re: OldChapXS] [link to this post]
 
as it happens I received the latest superfast cornwall newsletter this morning
Rural areas in North Cornwall among the latest to receive fibre optic broadband

Constantine Bay and the Kennards House area on Bodmin Moor are among the latest areas in Cornwall to receive fibre optic broadband, while further parts of Bude and Mevagissey have also received coverage.

This means that a further 500 businesses and homes can now order faster broadband, bringing the current number of premises able to order to over 190,000. If you're based in one of these areas, check your line to see if you can order.

By the time the rollout completes, the new technology will be available to 95% of premises across Cornwall, including many that are currently “exchange-only” lines. Alternative solutions, including satellite and ADSL2+, are expected to be used to provide faster broadband for the remaining 5% of premises.

With further coverage expected in the coming weeks across both urban and rural areas in Cornwall,

Does't give away any details but there is hope just over the horizon.
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