General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User commswitch
(newbie) Sat 26-Oct-13 12:08:12
Print Post

FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[link to this post]
 
Hi Folks,

Since last November, the cabinet at the end of the road (KA3 6LU, Cabinet 29) has had a "Fibre Enabled" sticker on it, although checking with BT Wholesale says it will not be enabled until March 31st 2014. Fair enough, though frustrating. However, my current ISP, Sky Broadband, is offering me a fibre connection albeit at a maximum download of 10.5 Mb, which is not enough of an increase to be worth considering. I am puzzled as to how Sky can offer me a fibre connection at all, given BT's estimated activation date. I do know that the main Kilmarnock exchange is flagged as "accepting orders", so is it possible that Sky would use an enabled cabinet at some further distance, thus accounting for the low line speed?
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 26-Oct-13 12:21:56
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: commswitch] [link to this post]
 
You can only get FTTC via the cabinet your line routes through, and the availability of a connection there is not dependent on which ISP you select.


Most ISPs use the BT Wholesale network to get their traffic from the BT Openreach fibre handover node (at your exchange, or sometimes at another nearby exchange depending on the chosen routing for the local BT Openreach fibre network) back to the ISP's own network. The BT Wholesale connection is almost invariably available from the day FTTx service is available, so there is no additional delay in ordering from any ISP using BT Wholesale.

There are a handful of ISPs who use their own backhaul networks rather than BT Wholesale:
  • TalkTalk (including, I guess, TalkTalk wholesale)
  • Sky
  • Zen (in some cases - though Zen use BT Wholesale if their own network is unavailable)
These ISPs sometimes take longer to get connected to the BT Openreach fibre handover node, so there can be an additional delay for those wishing to use these ISPs.


The most interesting thing will be the output from the BT availability checker. If possible, use your phone number. If that doesn't work (for example, if your line is currently with Sky or TalkTalk), use the address version. The postcode version is unreliable for FTTx.

Is this output still showing March 31st 2014? This is a placeholder date, and cabinet are often enabled sooner than the placeholder date.


If Sky are giving you an estimate of around 10 Mbit/s downstream speed, it sounds like your line is on an enabled cabinet, but you're a long way away from it. Some ISPs won't sell an FTTC based service unless the estimate is at least 15Mbit/s, which might explain what you are seeing.

Unfortunately, there's no cheap way of taking FTTC from another apparently closer cabinet. This would be regarded as a network rearrangement, for which you'd likely have to pay all the install costs. If this is what you wish to do, it would likely be better to wait for full FTTP On Demand roll out and have FTTPoD - though that won't be cheap.

Edit: extensive clarifying edits to the original second paragraph, which has now been split in two.

Edited by David_W (Sat 26-Oct-13 15:11:36)

Standard User commswitch
(newbie) Sat 26-Oct-13 12:38:05
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the prompt reply David. Yes, the address checker gave the same availability date, and actual distance from the cabinet is about 300 yds, not accounting for any underground routing, but walking route.

I guess I'll have to stick with ADSL for the time being, although as I rely on the 'net for just about everything - I'm disabled and effectively housebound - I was hoping for a significant speed increase. Ah well....


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User Ribble
(experienced) Sat 26-Oct-13 13:10:01
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: commswitch] [link to this post]
 
Once the cabinet goes live you should be able to get a much greater connection speed. At present that cabinet isn't even powered.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 26-Oct-13 13:41:30
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: commswitch] [link to this post]
 
Was this from an online Sky checker, or a phone/email discussion? What happens if you try another ISP's site, such as BT itself, PlusNet or AAISP?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 55.8/14.5Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Sat 26-Oct-13 21:41:25
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ribble:
Once the cabinet goes live you should be able to get a much greater connection speed. At present that cabinet isn't even powered.


Then why his cabinet FTTC got a sticker on? If there is a sticker on mean it powered up and LIVE. Very fishy BT.

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg
Standard User Ribble
(experienced) Sat 26-Oct-13 21:47:29
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Sticker shouldn't be there. Unfortunately many cabinets have stickers placed on them before they are live, so the sticker itself is not proof.
Standard User garethr
(member) Sat 26-Oct-13 23:38:42
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
Erm...

Hi,

Sorry to hear your having issues.

I've had a look at some historic data and ADSL checker results for some of your neighbours.

It looks like your homes is connect to a cabinet some distance from your bungalow. But BT didn't think it was previously.. I have no idea why! Your neighbours are not connected to the same cab.

I don't think there is much you can do but it is something I've seen before. Is there a second line etc in the property?

What is the history of the property was it a show home etc at some point ?

Have you ever complained about ADSL sync and had BT improve it for you?

Best wishes and good luck.


Regards,


Gareth

Gareth
BT Internet 21CN ADSL 1.4Mbps/400Kbps
BT Infinity FTTP 166Mbps/20Mbps soon

Edited by garethr (Sat 26-Oct-13 23:41:52)

Standard User BBPETER25
(newbie) Sun 27-Oct-13 11:34:23
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: garethr] [link to this post]
 
As with "Puzzled" I am a loss as to why BT can offer FTTC via a recently enabled FTTC cabinet but other ISPs are unable to use their circuits.

Is this a restraint of trade or does each ISP have to have its own equipment in each enabled exchange?

I would prefer to remain with my current ISP if possible but would dearly like a reasonable speed. Mine has seen 4.2 meg once on a morning test dropping to 0.60 on an evening test!

Any thoughts would be welcomed. Yes Openreach has been out twice since August and all is apparently OK.

Thanks.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 27-Oct-13 12:06:34
Print Post

Re: FTTC Availability - Puzzled


[re: BBPETER25] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BBPETER25:
As with "Puzzled" I am a loss as to why BT can offer FTTC via a recently enabled FTTC cabinet but other ISPs are unable to use their circuits.

Is this a restraint of trade or does each ISP have to have its own equipment in each enabled exchange?
The answer lies within a post I made earlier in the thread:
In reply to a post by David_W:
Most ISPs use the BT Wholesale network to get their traffic from the BT Openreach fibre handover node (at your exchange, or sometimes at another nearby exchange depending on the chosen routing for the local BT Openreach fibre network) back to the ISP's own network. The BT Wholesale connection is almost invariably available from the day FTTx service is available, so there is no additional delay in ordering from any ISP using BT Wholesale.

There are a handful of ISPs who use their own backhaul networks rather than BT Wholesale:
  • TalkTalk (including, I guess, TalkTalk wholesale)
  • Sky
  • Zen (in some cases - though Zen use BT Wholesale if their own network is unavailable)
These ISPs sometimes take longer to get connected to the BT Openreach fibre handover node, so there can be an additional delay for those wishing to use these ISPs.
If you are currently with Sky or TalkTalk, you have to wait until the ISP has their network connected to the relevant BT Openreach fibre handover node. It is up to the ISP to extend their network to that node and order the link (called a GEA Cablelink) from BT Openreach.

To my knowledge, all other ISPs use BT Wholesale, which is usually available from the day FTTC is enabled.


Simplifying all this, a FTTC connection has three elements. The first element is the BT Openreach network, which runs from your house to the cabinet over a pair of wires, then on fibre back to the BT Openreach handover node at your exchange or sometimes a nearby exchange. At the BT Openreach handover node, the second element comes into play - a backhaul network, either BT Wholesale or one provided by another company, which takes the traffic to the ISP's core network. The ISP's core network is the third element, which connects the traffic to the wider Internet.

An ISP must use the BT Openreach network to the BT Openreach handover node. From there, it's up to the ISP how much it provides itself and how much it buys from other companies. If an ISP will only use a provider that does not serve the relevant node, you can't order FTTC service from that ISP.


A restraint of trade would be a massive regulatory breach by BT Openreach. BT Openreach have to offer their products to other BT Group companies and non-BT customers on a non-discriminatory basis. Each customer must be treated equally.

Edit: corrected all occurrences of "BT Openworld" to "BT Openreach" - what was I thinking?

Edited by David_W (Sun 27-Oct-13 16:29:52)

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to