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Standard User ribble22
(newbie) Fri 24-Jan-14 17:38:50
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No Fibre On New Build Estate


[link to this post]
 
So here goes the story....

We've just bought a new build house on a modern estate in Plymouth (Site is called 504k and built by Cavanna Homes). As connectivity was an important factor in the choice of this house we were advised by the sales representatives to check the availability of fibre using the site postcode. This showed that the area was covered by an FTTC enabled cabinet and so all was good.

However when we actually moved in it turned out that the whole estate has been wired to a completely different cabinet. After doing some digging with BT Openreach (had to contact a manager directly in the end for a useful response) it turns out that this cabinet will not fall within their commercial rollout and also not within the BDUK scheme (Connecting Devon and Somerset). The options given to me are either wait, leased line, or privately fund a cabinet upgrade.

So, Iím absolutely amazed that weíve bought a house in a modern upcoming area and no provision has been made by the developer (Cavanna) or BT Openreach for decent connectivity considering we are already on 100+ houses and this is the first phase out of three. We are currently getting around 2mb via ADSL as we are so far from the exchange.

Does anybody else have any similar experiences / suggestions on how we could tackle this issue? I have already written to the CEO of Cavanna asking if they could help privately fund the cabinet but have had no reply so far.
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Fri 24-Jan-14 17:54:48
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: ribble22] [link to this post]
 
a similar situation on a large new estate in Beds - a long thread here - They are talking to local council, I suspect the fact site isn't half done might give some leverage

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Jan-14 18:20:09
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: ribble22] [link to this post]
 
Bad advice by the sales advisor. Any search done too early will be for the sales office, with the single line that Openreach will have installed as a one-off, possibly wired on a temporary overhead connection.

However, when the site is built, the full cable installation will need to go somewhere where there is capacity for perhaps hundreds of lines, and possibly require a new cabinet.

Really bad advice to depend on the former for an idea of what the latter would be - when the site manager will have specific plans, pre-build, for what Openreach intend.

Your worst case is if a new cabinet has been built on-site. That means the cabinet will be on an un-adopted road, and you may need to wait a long time for progress.

There is potential good news (although not speedy), as councils seem to have started the process of new "Open Market Reviews" for the 2nd batch of BDUK funding. When CDS do this, it should allow CDS to get that cabinet included in their scheme.

I suggest finding out when CDS intend to run this, and make sure Openreach (or the developer) responds. Then watch for a public consultation afterwards, when you can respond yourself.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 24-Jan-14 18:29:38
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Also http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6259-bt-to-invest...

Plymouth is a city whether its one of the 30 I have no idea, but get as many residents and others together to lobby and you might snag some of that money to see improvements.

Andrew Ferguson, andrew@thinkbroadband.com
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Fri 24-Jan-14 19:33:55
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: ribble22] [link to this post]
 
In my opinion developers should be contacting Openreach and asking them to provide the fibre duct and boxes to the developer to provide fibre to ALL new builld sites over 50 dwellings and some smaller. ( Instead of the copper duct and boxes)

This is a developers problem as they are still providing the copper infrastructure rather than fibre. Openreach appear quite open to developers providing fibre on big sites especially where fibre infrastructure has already been rolled out.

All buyers on new developments should be asking developers if FTTP is fitted, a no answer is likely to mean that people will have the same problems you have. Most large developments need new cabs and therefore do not have enough workers on to meet commercial parameters until the estate is completed.

The developers are responsible for providing the utility duct and boxes (both footway and NTE in the houses) they have the choice of what to ask for if they want to keep selling houses.
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Fri 24-Jan-14 21:30:25
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
I agree with this. The developer is the one to blame for not having considered FTTP for the build. The sales advisor is also to blame for giving false information.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
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Standard User Desmond
(sensei) Fri 24-Jan-14 21:52:33
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Bad advice by the sales advisor.


If the builder told you that you could be connected to gas or lecky and you later discovered you could not then I am 100% certain you could sue them for misselling the property and win.

I think we have reached the time when a builder should be required by law to tell buyers whether fibre will be available when the home is handed over. If not, then the buyer can decide to buy elsewhere where the builder can guarantee it. This might encourage builders to put some of their outrageously high profits from selling rabbit hutches into actually providing the hutches with decent broadband when they build them.

Des

Sky Broadband, Wired, Wireless, VoIP, 1 Mac, 2. Hackintoshes, 1 PC, 2 HTPCs, iPhone, iPad, OS X, Windows 7, Hate and 8 rhyming is not an accident!

Rehab is for quitters

Edited by Desmond (Fri 24-Jan-14 23:01:50)

Standard User Fastman2
(newbie) Fri 24-Jan-14 22:53:01
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: Desmond] [link to this post]
 
if the developer has not discussed with Openreach around provision of FTTP at a newbuild stage and does nothing and the developement is greater than 60 or so premises you then get a new copper cabinet (to enable voice to provider under USO universal service obligation) that development wont have been picked up by the commercial programme as too small (and commercial programme complete for decisioning) and likley not to had a post code so will have been missed by the LA as part of any OMR always assuminng the area in question is in a area is a BDUK bid Area

Prviate funding (either by community or Developer is quickest and shortest option)
Standard User Desmond
(sensei) Fri 24-Jan-14 23:04:15
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: Fastman2] [link to this post]
 
All of which may be true, but a developer can clearly tell a buyer they can get fibre when they can't and not be held to account for it when said buyer spends vast sums of money on a new property on the back of that assurance.

Des

Sky Broadband, Wired, Wireless, VoIP, 1 Mac, 2. Hackintoshes, 1 PC, 2 HTPCs, iPhone, iPad, OS X, Windows 7, Hate and 8 rhyming is not an accident!

Rehab is for quitters

Edited by Desmond (Fri 24-Jan-14 23:05:17)

Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 25-Jan-14 10:53:07
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Re: No Fibre On New Build Estate


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
The developers ... have the choice of what to ask for if they want to keep selling houses.


There's been debate about the relationship between developers and Openreach: Can developers demand fibre connectivity, or is it a case of getting what they are given?

Here's a press release from Openreach that shows that developers can certainly ask. If they're big enough, they get what they ask for. The lesson there is: If you're a smaller developer, and you don't get the same answer, you should publish the same kind of press release.

In reply to a post by kitcat:
In my opinion developers should be contacting Openreach and asking them to provide the fibre duct and boxes to the developer to provide fibre to ALL new builld sites over 50 dwellings and some smaller. ( Instead of the copper duct and boxes)

Openreach does have a developer's guide, which tells developers what to include... providing they choose to include BT amongst their service providers. It seems that Openreach make the plan for cabling the site, but then pay the developer for carrying out the work.

The latest guide, from April 2013, includes instruction for fibre ducting as a mandatory part of the development work (though choosing BT is optional). But there is nothing to make it mandatory for BT to then put fibre in it!

Version history:
  • Version 7, April 2013.
    Includes fibre in full detail for houses and MDU, but changed emphasis. Requires BFT in addition to the draw rope for copper.
  • Version 6, April 2012.
    Includes fibre in full detail for houses and MDU. Requires BFT in addition to the draw rope for copper.
  • Version 4, 2009. Almost no mention of fibre, and certainly no detail at all.


In contrast, the requirements for providing a phone line to the site office before development starts is rather differenent. considerably more ad-hoc using a "site distribution point" cabinet.

Openreach appear quite open to developers providing fibre on big sites especially where fibre infrastructure has already been rolled out.


According to a 2012 Working group for developers, held by Openreach, they were intending to roll out "fibre only" for new site development from September 2012
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