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Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:14:18
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Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[link to this post]
 
Hello All

I'm trying to get FTTC to my home in London SE24: a house with three flats. BT's availability checker says that FTTC service is available with FTTC-A range of 47.8-65 Mbit/sec for all the flats in my postcode, including a mis-addressed version of my flat ("Lower Floor" not "Basement"). They all same the same cabinet and Brixton exchange. But it says they can't deliver it to "Basement" because they say it's directly connected to the exchange.

I'm trying to buy the service from Zen (who I've used for many years in previous flats for ADSL service, and I've been happy with the service and also the customer service), who tell me Openreach is telling them I'm direct to the exchange. However, the engineer who put it in (I got his mobile number, thankfully!) is categoric that I'm connected to a FTTC-enabled cabinet, number XX just like the availability checker says all these flats are. (It has a Fibre ad on it, too.) My house is about 500 m from the cabinet, which is about 1 km from the exchange.

Anybody else had this kind of trouble? How do we get Openreach to accept that maybe there's just and administrative databse error and the engineering is okay? Did you get it resolved?

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Jonathan.

PS. Anybody know what the codes are in the availability checker? If you search by address, put in a house number and a postcode, you'll get a pulldown menu of the flats (or whatever) at that address. Looking at the HTML source you'll see they have codes like "CL" and "WR" and another like A00027123456. Anybody know what these mean? (My guess is the first is a code for the exchange, the second a code for the line ... but anybody know definitively? Or what the patterns mean for the A-numbers?)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:19:02
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
How long is it since your phone line was connected?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:19:38
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Just moved in? In which case databases may be out of sync for a few days.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:33:33
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi Roberto ... engineer came 27 June, reconnected a chopped wire into my flat, db changed from "don't know" to FTTC unavailable.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:38:01
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Mr Saffron, I believe the DB was updated with my number and so on, but they didn't fix its routing. Is that possible? Jonathan.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:39:11
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Well within the you can expect things to sort themselves out period then.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Icaras
(regular) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:41:23
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Was the person a contractor? If so it's possible the routing wasn't updated.

As for your question about the codes, they are databases under which BT group the exchanges. CL will be Central London. So as a made up example, if an exchange as called Rock Park and was in the middle of London it's full exchange code may be CLROC

Edited by Icaras (Mon 30-Jun-14 18:47:34)

Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:48:03
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Mr Saffron ... indeed I'd have said so too. The only problem is that Openreach is refusing the accept the order from Zen for FTTC service and are apparently being intransigent about it. Zen therefore is offering me ADSL, which I'd rather not order. Meanwhile, Virgin is offering FTTC service which neighbours say is good.

Edited by jonathanjo (Mon 30-Jun-14 18:49:59)

Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:49:33
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Hi Icarus -- thanks, makes sense. My exchange is WRBRIX. Now trying to make sense of the A-numbers.
Standard User Icaras
(regular) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:50:57
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Virgin is HFC, not FTTC. It doesn't work over a BT telephone line, they have their own infrastructure.

I'd leave it for a week and then query it with Zen again if you still don't have any joy then they need to contact Openreach directly and get this looked into.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:52:42
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Hybrid fibre coax.


______________________________________________________________________________________False_Authority_Syndrome__________________
Standard User Icaras
(regular) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:53:24
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
In not familiar with the A numbers. It may be some kind of unique identifier for your property or telephone line. Possibly something known as a NAD key.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:56:49
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Icarus -- Thanks for correction re Virgin HFC; indeed, they have messy cables all over my street, including to my house! I'd much rather have the FTTC. Zen is already in touch with Openreach about this, but Openreach is saying the engineer is wrong and apparently refusing to budge. I believe the engineer (he looked at the cabinet, after all, when he made the line work) but don't know how to get Openreach to reassess.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:59:03
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Openreach will be looking at the database that is probably waiting to have the job updates from the engineer filter through to it, this is a 2 to 3 WORKING day process and Sat 28th, Sun 29th don't count.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Icaras
(regular) Mon 30-Jun-14 18:59:15
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
I'm sure the engineer is correct, he will have gone to the cabinet when he installed your line.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 19:47:08
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Icarus -- seems you're right, the A-numbers are the NAD Keys. Searching around shows this is an Openreach Name and Address Database. From reading Openreach's Best Practice Guide to Address Management I've also found there's an Openreach Data Integrity team, with contact addresses, who are interested in things like fixing addresses. I'll try to get my ISP to contact to see if they can get this cleared up.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Mon 30-Jun-14 19:48:30
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Mr Saffron -- thanks for tip regarding typical DB update speeds ... I'll try sitting on my hands for a few days and see what happens to the Availability Checker.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 01-Jul-14 09:09:13
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Could you please PM me this information, as there are often people who post on here with database issues and I sometimes I get involved in researching the data.

Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 11:51:47
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Thanks R0nski, details sent in pm. Many thanks in advance for anything you can find out.
ISP Representative mickbzen
(isp) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:23:36
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Hi jonathanjo, I looked into this for you and can see that two of my colleagues, Matt & Andy have been in discussion with you already. We escalated this to the Network Addressing team at Openreach as we too didn't believe it to be correct. They have told us to check for an update again at around 4pm. I'm sure Matt or Andy will be back in touch once they have an update for you.

Kind Regards

Mick Bolton

ZeN Internet Customer Services
ZeN are recruiting!
Click here to view the opportunities available.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 14:05:47
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: mickbzen] [link to this post]
 
Some progress ... I emailed Zen yesterday saying I simply didn't accept Openreach's statement that the engineer was wrong; the engineer didn't mind being quoted so I gave them his details. Zen seems much more interested now: thanks Andy, Matt and now Mick too.

The Address Checker changed in the past hour or two for my flat, now shows FTTC available for all flats at my address ... but phone number checker not yet changed. Also still have a spurious extra flat.

But clearly things are changing.

So here's hoping.

Jonathan.
Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 01-Jul-14 19:45:47
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Just replied to your PM to say this appeared fixed, only to then see the result on the forum, anyway you may be interested in the information I sent.

Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 20:22:10
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: R0NSKI] [link to this post]
 
Hi R0nski

Many thanks for that! Yes it does seem as though things are progressing.

Zen the ISP has said they've resubmitted the FTTC request and we'll see what happens next.

Fingers crossed the gods of the databases will now allow it.

Jonathan.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Wed 02-Jul-14 12:41:35
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Just an update:

about midday today the Availability Checker changed for my phone number from FTTC unavailable to available, with numbers 80/74.6 down and 20/19.9 up.

My address lookup for my flat changed yesterday, and shows 65/47.8 down 19.2/12.7 up.

... looks like things are moving in the right direction.

Jonathan.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Thu 03-Jul-14 11:33:15
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Update: ... Openreach engineer scheduled for the 10th July AM slot, they must believe it's possible! Jonathan.

Edited by jonathanjo (Thu 03-Jul-14 11:33:39)

Standard User R0NSKI
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 03-Jul-14 22:56:00
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Good stuff, just a week to go.

Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 11-Jul-14 17:22:31
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Did it happen?

Cheers!

Clive


Andrews & Arnold FTTC
DrayTek Vigor 2920Vn

Andrews & Arnold Data SIM
HUAWEI E5776
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Sun 13-Jul-14 15:15:36
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
In brief, yippee it works!

Openreach engineer came Thursday morning exactly as promised, at 10.30 ("third job today"); a subcontractor from Kelly. He was carrying a BT modem and said he'd already been to the cabinet.

He changed the faceplate from a single phone-socket type to a phone-socket and modem-socket type, plugged in the modem and came and went to the cabinet, as there seemed to be some problem when he was at the patching cabinet (the PCP?) He resolved that by getting "them" (BT Wholesale?) to allocate a new port (on the DSLAM?) which he said would take 20 minutes or so to move the information across. I was happy enough to call that done when we had DSL lit, as he didn't claim he'd be any help getting my router working.

I'd bought and mostly-configured a Cisco 867VAE-k9 router, and connected my V-ADSL line directly to that, and it was clear we weren't getting PPP responses from the far end, for about 20 minutes or so, then it went live. I've kept the modem so if there is a fault in the future we can swap it back in for comparisons.

So we have a good result in the end.

What I learned was 1) get educated about the parts of the puzzle (for which I owe this website many thanks) so you can have a sensible conversation when things go wrong, 2) find out the neighbours' situations so you know what the local lie of the land is, 3) Ply your engineer with coffee and biscuits and a friendly face so you can find out what your exact details are.

I didn't in fact have coffee and biscuits for my engineers, but next time definitely will. If I hadn't by chance got the mobile number of the original Openreach engineer who put the phone in my flat, I wouldn't have been able to rebut the database's records that my line was direct to the exchange.

My ISP, Zen, was initially rather unhelpful -- and frankly I was fuming after one particular phone call with them -- but then became much more helpful when I complained. There is a definite weakness about getting the addresses correct in the original order and getting that fixed at BT; for which Zen could definitely do with improving. Those problems cost a few weeks of uncertainty and delay which might possibly have been avoided. Also, this is a long-term customer of an ISP trying to stick with it and upgrade service having moved to a house in which Virgin is *already working*, nonetheless it felt like I was basically an irritation to the ISP and its dealings with BT, rather than a valued customer trying to stick with a good supplier. I'd have hoped for better.

Thanks to this forum for helping me understand the process and how long things take and what one can do about the different problems; also thanks to Caffin8ed of this forum for her helpful post on Cisco configs.

All best,
Jonathan.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 13-Jul-14 15:27:55
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Result!

Great as well, isn't it smile !

Re the first two words in your post, I'm glad that was the shortened version tongue smile wink.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jonathanjo
(newbie) Sun 13-Jul-14 15:35:43
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, well I only put the longer one to cheer up those who might find similar problems in the future! This website was really very useful indeed in understanding the process: of course it's that much harder the first time, would always be easy the second time! Cheers, Jonathan.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 13-Jul-14 15:49:58
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Re: Openreach says I'm direct, engineer says FTTC cabinet


[re: jonathanjo] [link to this post]
 
Oops!
I misunderstood blush. I thought that was the brief version. I now realise the "Yippee it works" was.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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