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Standard User twhh
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:22:53
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Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


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Hi there,

Taxpayer money is currently being used to give BT a monopoly on my cabinet (Haywards Heath 38). The concrete foundation is in, so I suspect the cabinet will be there soon. It's been a long time coming, so anticipation of this I just checked availability for my line on the SamKnows website (thinking it might give insight into a 'go live' date)

I entered my phone number and postcode and I'm told that FTTC is not currently available in my area. No great surprise given that the cabinet isn't physically there yet. However, when I click on the 'BT FTTP' tab I get a green tick and am told that it's available.

How can this be? Does the FTTC check look at the cabinet level, but the FTTP look at the exchange level?

Just curious.

Thanks
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:29:18
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: twhh] [link to this post]
 
Use the BT Wholesale DSL checker www.dslchecker.bt.com
This will tell you what services are available to you.


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Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:47:50
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: twhh] [link to this post]
 
Taxpayer money is currently being used to give BT a monopoly on my cabinet


Had that money have gone to anyone else then it would have been a true monopoly. The fact it is BT and they are regaulted by Ofcom then they are required to wholesale the products to hundreds of other ISPs and the pricing of that wholesale service can be regulated to drive competition. Therefore you actually will have far more choice available than if the money had gone to any other provider currently operating in the UK.

As far as samknows goes there database for UK doesn't seem to be as good as it was many years ago - as per the other response use BTs checker as it will be more accurate.

EDIT: Just check what Sam actually says for another address. It states FTTP is available in the area - I believe that means there are some properties attached to that exchange that have FTTP not that the specific line is FTTP capable.

Edited by ian72 (Tue 01-Jul-14 13:49:03)


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:49:10
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: twhh] [link to this post]
 
Cabinet P55 looks to have FTTP delivered to the 8 postcodes via the West Sussex project

No date but it is planned for cabinet 38, but remember you do not have to order from BT, but can order from 80+ providers including TalkTalk, Sky, PlusNet and others.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User twhh
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:49:52
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Hmm, that's even more confusing...

Tells me numerous ADSL products are available. It also tells me 'WBC Fixed Rate' and 'Fixed Rate' are available. Both have a Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) of 1, with all other values being "--". But the right hand columns does say 'Available'

It also says 'Copper Multicast' is available.

I have no idea what any of these mean. Can you shed any light on them?

Thanks
Standard User twhh
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 13:53:29
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Had that money have gone to anyone else then it would have been a true monopoly. The fact it is BT and they are regaulted by Ofcom then they are required to wholesale the products to hundreds of other ISPs and the pricing of that wholesale service can be regulated to drive competition. Therefore you actually will have far more choice available than if the money had gone to any other provider currently operating in the UK.


Sorry, I was being provocative. Was expecting to be partially flamed. Silly of me smile

Edited by twhh (Tue 01-Jul-14 13:54:10)

Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 01-Jul-14 14:01:09
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: twhh] [link to this post]
 
Not really flaming... But it is a common misconception that giving the money to BT is a lock in whereas it is probably about the best option for UK users if you want choice. Had it of gone to most of the Altnets you would have had far more limited choice over suppliers - but I think you seem to already know that.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 01-Jul-14 14:08:59
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: twhh] [link to this post]
 
WBC is ADSL2+ service from BT Wholesale, you may also have ADSL2+ from Sky and TalkTalk using their own kit available.

Copper Multicast is a way of broadcasting TV IP streams to you efficiently and is used by BT YouView/Vision boxes in addition to the Freeview signal

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User twhh
(newbie) Tue 01-Jul-14 14:32:04
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Gotcha.

So SamKnows not a huge amount, and the BT Wholesale site neither confirms or denies a huge amount.
Standard User gah789
(regular) Tue 01-Jul-14 15:17:19
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Re: Does Sam really know? What does s/he know?


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
You can defend BT but you really ought to make an effort to understand the relevant legal framework. BT does have an effective monopoly over the local distribution system and its charges for use of the copper loop are regulated. Alternative providers such as VM wish to avoid use of the monopoly infrastructure as far as possible because they have no control over the quality of service offered. This is where the dispute about BDUK arises, because it entrenched BT's control over local distribution rather than promoting alternative distribution systems.

With respect to wholesale services, only BT's charges for DSL access at Market A exchanges (now less than 10% of the market) are regulated. For the rest it can charge what it likes provided that it acts in a non-discriminatory manner - this involves endless procedural detail but no price caps. The same is true for all FTTC services.

Anyone - BT or an altnet - accepting public subsidies for broadband infrastructure is required to give wholesale access to their facilities in a transparent and non-discriminatory manner. That is why VM did not participate in the BDUK process, since it did not want to open up its local distribution network. Even then, there is no requirement on what the retail margin should be - which is why TT complain about a margin squeeze. In practice, resellers want a national deal so that even KCOM attracts almost no wholesale customers.

All of this is further blurred by the fudged lines between BTOR, BTW and BTR with respect to the BDUK programme. There are two reasonable complaints on competition grounds. The first is the lack of transparency about BDUK contracts. Does anyone seriously think that BT would not have bid had there been a condition that all contracts would be published? The second is that it is a fundamental principle of policies to deal with market dominance that contracts should not be designed in a way that encourages a winner takes all outcome. Think Sky and Premier League TV rights. Yet this principle was simply ignored in setting up the BDUK process. At a minimum it should have been a condition that BT could not be awarded more than 50% of the value of the contracts.
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