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Standard User EViL3
(learned) Mon 01-Sep-14 15:34:45
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Need some advice on OpenReach


[link to this post]
 
Hi Guys

I need some advise, to cut a long story short, OpenReach's database is wrong, after harrassing OpenReach for 12 months, they finally sent an engineer out 3 weeks ago who confirmed I was on an FTTC cab and I got an email around the same time from OpenReach (enquire@openreach...) saying they have asked the Network Inventory Team to update the records and it should be resolved within a few days.

3 weeks on and I've heard nothing since, I've emailed them several times and received no reply. I've tried pushing my ISP to pick this up, but they are effectively telling me there is nothing they can do.

Can anybody recommend a course of action? Or an ISP for Techies who has the contacts at OpenReach to chase this up?

Thanks
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Sep-14 18:33:01
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: EViL3] [link to this post]
 
Option 1: ask mr s to fix via his network of contacts, see sticky user at top of this forumn
Option 2: open reach only talk to isp,s. So your isp needs to sort out. Its the cab that is enabled. Check your neighbours ans have your isp submit a manual order.

IanD
Standard User Fastman2
(member) Mon 01-Sep-14 19:49:30
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: EViL3] [link to this post]
 
in this case the question is not are ytu connected to an FTTC cab - but hw far you are form it -- anythjing greater that 1.3 km means yu are likley to be too far to get little or no uplift

Edited by Fastman2 (Mon 01-Sep-14 19:50:14)


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Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Sep-14 09:33:25
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
Option 3: email the CEO of BT. They have troubleshooters responding to emails there, whose job is to deal with these kind of nitty-gritty problems, where communication along the existing hierarchy (customer -> ISP -> BTW -> Openreach) fails.
Standard User IranianGiraffe
(member) Thu 04-Sep-14 13:55:55
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: EViL3] [link to this post]
 
I know a couple people who had issues with OpenReach database and not being able to get fibre (when they knew they could), both spoke to AAISP and AAISP got it sorted within 48hrs and they were able to order fibre via them. AAISP may cost more but there customer service is 2nd to none for me.
Standard User EViL3
(learned) Sat 06-Sep-14 17:38:38
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Cheers guys.

I emailed the CEO last year, and pretty much got the same story I'm getting now..

But I finally got a reply from OpenReach - which is my line is on the wrong cabinet. I moved into a new estate where they had not yet installed a Cab for the area, so as a "favour" they routed the line to the nearest one (Cab 8), with the intention of moving it to the new Cab when it was installed (Cab 59).

But the problem is, they never did actually move it back, so I'm still on Cab 8 (Which now has FTTC), but their database shows Cab 59, and even though they know this is wrong, they are refusing to update it a simple database record, instead they now want an engineer to move my line to Cab 59, which I am refusing as it does not have FTTC.

Its a cluster-f*** .. I've since discovered a neighbor on the same postcode, who is also on the same Cab 8 has FTTC available. So I've pointed out this surely sets a precedent, I'm now waiting for their reply. But they've given me another excuse at every turn, which I have so far always proved wrong, But its enough to make me paranoid that a) There is some political reason for not making it available to people on my estate or b) they just don't want their pretty maps messed up.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Sep-14 23:57:59
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: EViL3] [link to this post]
 
If they've connected you to the "wrong" cabinet, even temporarily, it probably means the strict tree-branch structure of the distribution network has become mixed-up, with your line heading the wrong way through some duct ... quite likely mis-using a cable pair in some a bundle at the same time.

I can see that, eventually, they would want to put this mis-use right. Just so they keep their management of cable correct & consistent; it is hard to keep knowledge of this bodge amongst all the various line engineers who maintain equipment in the area, when it runs against what the computer believes to be possible. That, in turn, means you could find your line "stolen" by a well-meaning engineer who doesn't realise what was bodged.

That's the limit of the problem for voice, but...

If that cable run goes far enough, and they allowed you to have a VDSL2 service, you could find that it causes a lot of the wrong kind of crosstalk to other users whose supply runs in the "right" direction, and vice versa - and that would detract from both your and their speeds (particularly once your "proper" cab got service). That could cause a lot of investigation nightmares at some nebulous time in the future.

It generally isn't good to have DSL services from two different sources running down the same cable bundle (hence all VDSL2 services from the cab have to be deliberately crippled slightly so as to not ruin/swamp the ADSL signals coming from the exchange).

And then...

This will soon become even more critical for FTTC when Vectoring is introduced. Vectoring is technology to restore every FTTC signal to the best possible, by predicting crosstalk in all the lines from the cabinet, and cancelling it. This technology will allow BT to start selling 100Mbps services from the cabinet.

However, just one "alien disturber" is enough to thwart the effect of vectoring. By mixing lines between cabs 8 and 59, you introduce such a disturber into both systems that cannot be predicted... leaving all lines at reduced speeds.

At this point, there is no way that Openreach can tolerate bodged lines in the system.

I suspect that, having told Openreach that a neighbouring line has the same issue, they'll now audit every line, and the neighbour will lose their connection to cab 8 too.
Standard User EViL3
(learned) Sun 07-Sep-14 00:14:52
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Hi Wombat

Thanks for the insight, that would explain the brickwall I am running into.

Cab 59 actually routes through Cab 8, or the exact explanation I received from OpenReach was -

"The difference on this one to the way they are normally done is that your distribution point that connects your house, is connected to cab 59 which is then connected to cabinet 8 then the exchange."

This is an early response I received before they sent out an engineer and admitted I was connected to Cab 8, but they do point out Cab 59 routes via Cab 8. So my line follows the exact same path, its just that they did not splice it (or how ever they would do it) and connect it to Cab 59.

How would this impact on the issues you pointed out above?

Many Thanks
Kelvin
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Sep-14 11:27:43
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: EViL3] [link to this post]
 
With that setup, everything I said about the voice situation remains the same. The problems with DSL crosstalk and with vectoring would only occur when a fibre cabinet was installed next to both 8 and 59.

For a case where you were connected to cab 8 for FTTC, while your neighbours were connected to 59, the details for extra crosstalk run roughly like this:

Downstream: Your signals have to run further from cab 8, and will have attenuated (lost power/volume) by the time they pass cab 59. New signals injected by cab 59 (to all subscribers there) will be at a higher power relative to yours, so your neighbours are likely to swamp your signal. You get extra crosstalk, so your modem perceives lower SNR values - so runs your line at a markedly lower speed - and/or you get a higher error rate.

Upstream: Your signals have further to run, so your modem probably has to "shout louder" than your neighbours (it depends on the upstream power-backoff being run by the cabinets). If you do have to shout louder, then your upstream signal will add crosstalk to your neighbours, and they will end up with reduced upstream speeds and/or higher error rates.

"Neighbours" isn't the usual term, meaning people who live next door. Here it means the wire pairs that runs next to yours in the cable bundle. The closest neighbouring pairs are the ones from whom you pick up most of the crosstalk noise.

The vectoring problem remains as described: any unmanaged FTTC subscriber running in amongst a managed group can wreak havoc, rendering the investment void. Your line would gain none of the advantages of running vectoring (because none of the interfering lines are managed on cab 8) while your neighbours would lose a good proportion of the vectoring gain (because cab 59 can reduce crosstalk within the neighbouring lines alone, but cannot account for yours).
Standard User EViL3
(learned) Sun 07-Sep-14 12:02:24
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Re: Need some advice on OpenReach


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
OK that explains something that was previously mentioned to me. I'll wait and see what they come back with, but given what you've said, if they say no again then I'll ask them to move my line to Cab 59 and just wait.

Just in case I was on Cab 59, I've also been working this through the estate developers, they had a meeting with BDUK a couple of weeks ago to apply some pressure.

Edited by EViL3 (Sun 07-Sep-14 12:08:39)

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