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Standard User DoktorEddie
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-Oct-14 10:15:57
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Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


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Out of 34 business sites that my company supports, only 13 can obtain any kind of FTTC service. Of the 19 that cannot, 8 of this sites have no reasonably affordable alternatives and are effectively stuck on sub 4-5Mbit ADSL2 connections.

These sites are fairly scattered and randomised, some are rural, others are town or city centre.

It is clear that on some sites, BT have intentionally avoided business parks (even when located near to dense residential areas) - I can only conclude this is to force businesses into buying leased lines.

Most of these sites are between 3 - 10 users and the cost of leased lines is too expensive, so they are forced to lumber on with totally inappropriate broadband performance.

I'd be interested if anyone has any links illustrating BT's commitments to SMB, Or if anyone knows of any community alliances or projects around small business broadband 'not spots' please let me know.

Personally, I think it's pretty disgusting that BT are allowed to force business onto leased lines in this way. They desperately need much tougher regulation and/or nationalising.

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Ed
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 30-Oct-14 10:53:19
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
BT is allowed to in the same way that Virgin Media and other commercial operators are allowed to. They operate where they think there is a profit.

Reality is that cabinets serving business parks are generally less premises per cabinet and thus chances of a reasonable ROI period are worse. In essence the same spread out nature and sometimes the need to deal with a park landlord i.e. normal code powers do not always apply can make things more difficult for not just BT.

Which county are you in? Most BDUK projects are addressing the business parks via gap funding and there are various chunks of EU dedicated to helping businesses too.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-Oct-14 11:32:01
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DoktorEddie:
Personally, I think it's pretty disgusting that BT are allowed to force business onto leased lines in this way. They desperately need much tougher regulation and/or nationalising.
Regulation is already pretty tough but perhaps it could be improved. But nationalisation.. what is it about the current government (or indeed any prior government) that makes you think they would be the best custodians of our vital telecommunications infrastructure?

Is it the way BDUK has blundered and bumbled its way along?
Is it their determination to spy on every aspect of our lives?
Are you too young to remember what an expensive shambles the network ended up as under the Post Office?

BT aren't perfect but at least their network is reliable and cheap and you have a lot of choice about what equipment you can use.

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Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Thu 30-Oct-14 11:35:51)


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 30-Oct-14 12:25:37
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
Would an FTTC cabinet be cost effective? Looking at our local trading estates there are two types of company. The larger ones who have leased lines and probably run their voice over ISDN 30 or similar so do not go through the cabinets.

The smaller companies have maybe 5 to 10 lines from the cabinet which in itself will be sparsely populated. They probably have ADSL2+ running on one of those lines or maybe two

So when a cabinet is considered for an FTTC twin the number of potential customers will be well down to start with and even if a 100% take up of customers was achieved, it would still fall well short of being viable.

However, if enough companies are will to part fund an upgrade, then BT will consider it.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User DoktorEddie
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-Oct-14 15:46:14
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Which county are you in? Most BDUK projects are addressing the business parks via gap funding and there are various chunks of EU dedicated to helping businesses too.


Primarily Hertfordshire, but a few in Essex and Cambridgeshire. When I last checked, there were no voucher schemes covering the areas and the BDUK roll out maps (that you have to squint at along with a bit of guess work) show no plans for most of the sites.

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Ed
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 30-Oct-14 15:57:52
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
Have you contacted the projects to enquire about future plans for those estates?

For example in Essex, Severals Industrial Estate, Colchester has benefited, but a lot will depend on what projects current goals are and how far the money will spread.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User DoktorEddie
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-Oct-14 16:08:11
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Regulation is already pretty tough but perhaps it could be improved. But nationalisation.. what is it about the current government (or indeed any prior government) that makes you think they would be the best custodians of our vital telecommunications infrastructure?

As it would be a non-profit organisation, there would be more money (however many billion pounds) to re-invest. There would also be less of a need to market/put spin on everything and more of an incentive to be seen supporting small business (and therefor jobs, economy etc). Ok, perhaps a very naive view, but I can't see how it could be any worse.
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Is it the way BDUK has blundered and bumbled its way along?
Is it their determination to spy on every aspect of our lives?
Are you too young to remember what an expensive shambles the network ended up as under the Post Office?

I am too young, in my early 30's, to remember the PO running the network.
In reply to a post by Andrue:
BT aren't perfect but at least their network is reliable and cheap and you have a lot of choice about what equipment you can use.

But there's no other choice for providers in 99% of cases. Virgin business cable is not available in all my cases, there are no superfast offerings like Hyperoptic as we're not in the capital and there aren't many rural/community schemes as we're not remote enough! People seem to assume that because we're bordering London, then we must be getting very good broadband options. This is not the case at all.

BT should be forced to offer better packages - paid for by cutting bonuses, re-investing profits and increasing business broadband prices to narrow the divide between FTTC (~£40) and leased lines (~£400). Perhaps a basic business FTTC package at £50 and a more advance/unlimited plan for £100? Would this not raise enough cash to enable BT to be able to provide a reasonable broadband service to more than the current 35-40% of businesses?

Why should a 5 man business pay £400 a month to get suitable broadband? Internet connectivity isn't a luxury or 'nice to have' for business - its essential.

---
Ed
Standard User DoktorEddie
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-Oct-14 16:09:28
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Have you contacted the projects to enquire about future plans for those estates?


No I haven't. I'll give this a go, but from past experiences of this kind of thing my expectations of a useful response are very low.

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Ed
Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 30-Oct-14 16:32:48
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
You claim to be speaking/asking for business but seem to have no idea as to how a business operates.
As it would be a non-profit organisation, there would be more money (however many billion pounds) to re-invest.
Where exactly are all of these billions supposed to come from? A non-profit is no guarantee of low cost, salaries still have to be paid and can be no different from those in business.
I am too young, in my early 30's, to remember the PO running the network.
No surprise then that you don't know how dire it was when the Post Office ran the phone system. It was nothing to have to wait for six plus months for a new line.
But there's no other choice for providers in 99% of cases
What are you trying to say? With an Openreach connection you have the choice of literally hundreds of ISPs, quite unlike Virgin, Gigaclear or Hyperoptic where there is no choice.
BT should be forced to offer better packages - paid for by cutting bonuses, re-investing profits and increasing business broadband prices to narrow the divide between FTTC (~£40) and leased lines (~£400).
As I've already stated you clearly have little understanding for business.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 30-Oct-14 16:43:29
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Re: Lack of Small Business Fibre/Options


[re: DoktorEddie] [link to this post]
 
Just to pick on one of your points.

£400/month or £90/week or £18/week/person for a 5 man person company. Look at what you are paying them in salary and other benefits, is £18/week actually that much? How much do each of them cost the company in phone charges? A good leased line will allow you to put all of them on a digital or VOIP connection and remove any fixed line rentals which will save further costs so the £18 drops ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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