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Standard User RuralWire
(newbie) Thu 20-Nov-14 10:44:51
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Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November 2014


[link to this post]
 
Apparently, the much awaited progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire was presented to a meeting of the Executive of North Yorkshire County Council held on Tuesday 18 November 2014.

There are plenty of details in the report relating to progress on Phases 1, 2 and 3, the recent Open Market Review, FTTRN, the Government funded Airwave trial, funding issues and so forth, but a number of fundamental questions remain unanswered.

The link to the report is below, but this appears to be a temporary link as the County Council 'online democracy system is currently undergoing maintenance'.


http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/media/29861/Exec---addi...

Does anyone have a clear insight into how all this might impact on the 2Mbps Universal Service Commitment?
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Nov-14 11:42:55
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: RuralWire] [link to this post]
 
Grrrr

I was going to go along when they presented this... but there was no agenda published for that meeting!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Nov-14 12:26:10
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: RuralWire] [link to this post]
 
Impact will only be clear as and when people actually buy into the new services offered in the areas.

USC upgrades are NOT automatic.

Reading report now

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Nov-14 12:47:13
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: RuralWire] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm.

So the biggest things to report, on first read-through, are:

- That FTTRN is delayed - both in trial, and in full deployment - though we now know where the trial is located (Ulshaw, Leyburn)

The reason appears to be the cost of power; the example given shows that reverse power (from end user) is not part of the architecture, that local power (described as "1:1" and used in the trial) is costly. The example reports that the problem could be solved by sharing power amongst a number of FTTRN nodes - which could indicate it being forward-fed from the cabinet or somewhere on a shared spine out from the cabinet.

- That the end of phase 1 is delayed into 2015. Reason: engineering staff competent at the copper re-arrangement needed for EO lines - which is becoming a national issue.

- That phase 2 is delayed into 2016. Reason: A knock-on effect from phase 1, and more of the same resource issues.

- That phase 3 (SEP) should not commit to fibre-based (ie BT) funding as yet. The average subsidy per home is getting too high; if spent on fibre-based solution (FTTRN or FTTP), the budget would only cover 1% of the county's homes, not the expected 5%.

- York is leaving the SFNY project. This was expected, with their plans becoming aligned with the West Yorkshire groups recently.

- The Airwave pilot (for the innovation fund) is given a location (Esk valley & West Witton); details suggest the trial is more about providing wholesale backhaul for WISPs to use.

- Takeup is running at 20%, and is at 25% for cabinets that have been running for 15 months. Projected to be at 30% by March 2015.

Centrally, BDUK appear to be working out how to get takeup to 50%.

- Within the commercial rollout, 177,000 properties are counted as getting superfast speeds, with 8,000 getting non-superfast speeds. That's 95% of the coverage getting SF speeds.

Overall, the report feels like NY is heading towards wireless for the final portion. I suspect that a key link in the chain (here and nationally) will be getting a wholesale backhaul solution that the main ISPs hook up to (ie enabling service through Sky, TalkTalk and even BT)
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Nov-14 13:06:36
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
We have our own tracking of course for the various projects and so far the gap between fibre and superfast is wider in North Yorkshire than elsewhere. It is a challenging area and hard to also track as EO cabinets are hard to discover and probably explains our difference in the figures.

The Airwave is interesting, but a risk of Airwave walking away if long term it does not look commercially viable is there.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Nov-14 14:30:09
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: RuralWire] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RuralWire:
Does anyone have a clear insight into how all this might impact on the 2Mbps Universal Service Commitment?


NY haven't once given the USC portion a priority over the superfast portion.

For phase 2, NY took the stance that the extended SF coverage for phase 2 would allow them to re-allocate some of the USC budget (£2m out of the USC total of £5m) - implicitly putting the USC phase toward the end of phase 2, instead of the end of phase 1. At the time they made this decision, that would have moved it from Q3 2014 to Q4 2015.

In the report you linked, they seem open to delaying the USC phase again - if it lets them buy more SF coverage. However, because they effectively put the phase 3 decisions on hold, the USC phase hasn't yet moved beyond the end of phase 2.

But they also reported that phase 2 would now go on from Jan 2015 to Dec 2016 - and the USC portion is likely to be at the very end.

Given the report's emphasis on wireless for the final 5-10% (remembering that the final 1%, 3,800 properties, are allowed to be pushed over to satellite), and SFNY's new definition of "Hiqh Quality Broadband" (10Mbps+), I think they will continue to push the USC phase as late as they possibly can.

On the plus side... the USC portion is a commitment within their contracts to BT, though it is obviously a flexible condition whenever they re-negotiate further funding. As soon as they stop giving extra contracts to BT, and start buying wireless connectivity elsewhere, the BT contract will solidify, and USC coverage will have to be put in place.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Nov-14 14:45:01
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps the labour plan of 2 Mbps first, and then a second project for superfast after that might have pleased people more, but might in 2010/2011 been more problematic in terms of state aid.

i.e. spending to get to 2 Mbps, then another wave to boost to superfast very soon after may have made EU approval slower.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Nov-14 15:19:33
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
We have our own tracking of course for the various projects and so far the gap between fibre and superfast is wider in North Yorkshire than elsewhere.

I agree that will be the case - but more down to the un-commercial (more rural) areas, rather than the commercial ones.

I finally found the equivalent numbers for the intervention area, as exists right now: 151k premises passed, of which 130k can get superfast speeds - which amounts to 85%. A lot lower percentage.

However, there is one thing about those figures that intrigues me. Those numbers say that, right now, there are 21k homes connected who are beyond the 25Mbps threshold.

Yet elsewhere in the report is this quote:

At the end of Phase 2 there will be an estimated 41,500 premises still not able
to access broadband speeds of at least 25Mbps (of which 12,000 are
premises attached to cabinets that have already been fibred but the premises
concerned are beyond the critical distance of 1.2kms).


Only 12,000 properties?

What brings this figure down to 12k? It could be the use of FTTRN, but the report has already discounted that as "not yet known to be included in the project". It could be overlaying FTTP to some of these homes. Or it could be the effect of range improvements with vectoring.

It is a challenging area and hard to also track as EO cabinets are hard to discover and probably explains our difference in the figures.

It does look to be a problem. Magenta's codelook system seems to know how many cabs exist in an exchange, and how many EO bundles. Presumably an EO cab will have been created when you encounter a cabinet number that is not one of the existing ones ... but working out the EO bundle(s) it was created from must be harder...

The Airwave is interesting, but a risk of Airwave walking away if long term it does not look commercially viable is there.


As they're all pilot projects (including the other counties), you actually expect a few to come back as non-viable. I guess each county will want to try to make some of the new infrastructure long-lived, even if the project surrounding it becomes non-viable.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Nov-14 15:48:21
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
That 12,000 is the number in the final 41,500, so overall will be higher in the 2 to 24.9 Mbps region.

The EO and projects keep me working late into many evenings trying to keep track and be ready for the various announcements.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Fri 21-Nov-14 01:31:00
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Re: Progress report on Superfast North Yorkshire - November


[re: RuralWire] [link to this post]
 
The council seems to have fixed their ailing server...

The "proper" link to the report can now be found as:
http://democracy.northyorks.gov.uk/FunctionsPage.asp...

The minutes from the meeting can be found as:
http://democracy.northyorks.gov.uk/FunctionsPage.asp...

The minutes give some additional colour to the meeting, compared with the plain text from the report. Given the draft status, the minutes do appear to make some mistakes (such as the implausible quote that phase 2 will be complete by Christmas 2014).
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