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Standard User schander
(regular) Wed 25-Feb-15 14:31:16
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Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


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Hi All,
OpenReach came today and blew fibre to the man hole literally 5m from my house. I spoke with the engineer in charge and he said that all that needs to happen now is the fibre connection from the manhole to the house.

I know that as part of the BDUK roll out cabinet 44T on SMBF was due to get FTTH this month. The engineer said that they did that cabinet last week and now they are doing 49T/manhole as part of the same BDUK rollout

My questions, now that fibre is there ready to be connected, are:
  • Why would OpenReach still need BDUK funding for my cab (49T)? As this is now just a FTTH install?
  • Does the fact that some houses are still connected to TPON make a difference? E.g. Is extra work required to get them connected to fibre?


Thanks
Satpal
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 25-Feb-15 14:56:33
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: schander] [link to this post]
 
As far as I knew P44T was part of the BDUK roll-out for FTTP and P49T was neither commercial or BDUK, i.e. no plans

The no plan thing does change, and also the engineering staff do sometimes have duff info.

With FTTP it is less about the cabinet and more about the fibre splitters and manifolds in the ground (or on poles).

It may be you live on the boundary between cab 44T and 49T and will be missing out which is likely if you are in postcode MK42 9GH

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User schander
(regular) Wed 25-Feb-15 15:13:54
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for speedy reply.

They have had duff info before because they have install a brand FTTC cab at the end of the road. The engineer came round specially after to tell me that the cab was useless because this part of the estate was getting FTTH. They would have needed to run copper from the exchange to carry the voice. He said that they were putting in 'fibre 96'. They were there for ~3hours.
I forgot to say that the cabinet (49T) is next to the manhole.

So the long and short of it is that there Is, more work required before an engineer can come and install FTTH. Which would require BDUK funding?

Thanks again
Satpal


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Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Feb-15 18:30:28
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: schander] [link to this post]
 
So the long and short of it is that there Is, more work required before an engineer can come and install FTTH.


It is possible that more work is needed - we don't know what has happened with the fibre(s) further up towards the exchange head-end. Things might not be connected there yet.

You'll be able to order when the DSL checker says that the service is available. One of these pages should help:
Telephone Number Checker: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome
Address Checker: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addres...
Don't use the 3rd option - the postcode checker.

Which would require BDUK funding?

I'm not sure why you are asking about BDUK funding.

Do you think that BDUK funds installations in individual homes? That you have to apply to BDUK to get your home funded, and they send you a cheque?

It doesn't work that way. BT calculate how much money it will cost to upgrade a cabinet (with FTTC) or to upgrade the cabinet area (with FTTP); when this costs more than a threshold, they will get the local council's BDUK project to pay the excess costs.

Once the council has agreed to meet those excess costs, BT go ahead and plan the work needed to get fibre infrastructure into your area - either supplying an FTTC cabinet, or getting the FTTP gubbins to nearby manholes. Once installed, BT can invoice the council directly for those excess costs - for the whole of the cabinet or cabinet area in one go, not for individual homes.

Once the FTTP stuff is properly installed nearby, and the BT checker databases updated, you'll be able to order a BT Infinity package from BT Retail in the same way anyone with FTTC could. There is no extra funding that you will need to provide at a retail/consumer level, as BDUK will have done that behind the scenes direct with BT Openreach.
Standard User schander
(regular) Thu 26-Feb-15 11:00:41
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for the detailed reply.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
So the long and short of it is that there Is, more work required before an engineer can come and install FTTH.


It is possible that more work is needed - we don't know what has happened with the fibre(s) further up towards the exchange head-end. Things might not be connected there yet.

If what the engineer said then it's already connected at the head end, implying that we just needed to order.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
You'll be able to order when the DSL checker says that the service is available. One of these pages should help:
Telephone Number Checker: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome
Address Checker: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addres...
Don't use the 3rd option - the postcode checker.

The number checker says:
FTTC is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- This cabinet is under review. We'll explore fibre broadband solutions & will update once done..

The postcode checker says nothing with regard to FTTC/H. OpenReach had erected a FTTC cabinet at the end of the road which is not going to be used, due the fact that they would need to run brand new copper cable back to the exchange for voice, atleast thats what the engineer said.
The OpenReach Where and When site says that the cabinet is already enabled for superfast, with both number and postcode address checker. However this could be due to that that we have TPON and that is considered Fibre, well thats what the engineer assumed.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Which would require BDUK funding?

I'm not sure why you are asking about BDUK funding.

This work has been done due to cabinet 44T getting FFTH this month as per agreement in phase 1 of Bedford councils BDUK rollout. OpenReach did not realise until around last August that they were not going to cover cab 49T as part of their standard rollout. Therefore we have missed phase 1 of funding.
Now the council is saying that phase 2 is out to tender and we may/may not get funding depending on cost per house. The tender process finishes in early April and rollout in 2016.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Do you think that BDUK funds installations in individual homes? That you have to apply to BDUK to get your home funded, and they send you a cheque?

It doesn't work that way. BT calculate how much money it will cost to upgrade a cabinet (with FTTC) or to upgrade the cabinet area (with FTTP); when this costs more than a threshold, they will get the local council's BDUK project to pay the excess costs.

It appears that the majority work for that has already been done. Given that apparently cab 49T is 'the spine' cab. Therefore I was wondering if the residents could pay for the last phase of installation, whatever that maybe. It's not going to be the 30K+ that one of the residents was quote by Virgin to run cable across the road to his house.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Once the council has agreed to meet those excess costs, BT go ahead and plan the work needed to get fibre infrastructure into your area - either supplying an FTTC cabinet, or getting the FTTP gubbins to nearby manholes. Once installed, BT can invoice the council directly for those excess costs - for the whole of the cabinet or cabinet area in one go, not for individual homes.

What 'gubbins' are required? I get the feeling the engineers yesterday just blew the fibre required to the manhole. I could be wrong given the engineer implied that we should be able to order.
In reply to a post by WWWombat:
Once the FTTP stuff is properly installed nearby, and the BT checker databases updated, you'll be able to order a BT Infinity package from BT Retail in the same way anyone with FTTC could. There is no extra funding that you will need to provide at a retail/consumer level, as BDUK will have done that behind the scenes direct with BT Openreach.


Thanks
Satpal
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-Feb-15 13:16:35
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: schander] [link to this post]
 
Detail is the key here...

You may have a manhole outside your home that is ready for FTTH, but it may NOT be the manhole you are connected to, and am guessing you are on the edge of two cabinets, without a full address difficult to say a lot more. Guessing is fun, but ultimately it is confusing you.

NOTE: A existing TPON cabinet WILL NOT mean an area shows as fibre enabled.

What exist hardware was in the manhole, you can ID it using http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/ which has everything they shove in the ground for a FTTP roll-out.

In terms of residents paying for it, probably looking at £1,500 plus for each property if you are going to gap fund yourselves when Openreach has previously decided to not take the risk, and would need 15 to 20 of you to commit to this sort of spending for it to happen. Even then it might be a year or more since they are very busy and fitting you into the timeline will be difficult, particularly as council projects have deadlines looming.

IMPORTANT: For those properties served by the manhole you have seen, if it has fibre blown to the manifold and the GPON is active, then when they order FTTP the final bit of fibre over their garden etc is installed and this has a wholesale cost of £99+VAT but is often done for free at the retail level.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User schander
(regular) Thu 26-Feb-15 13:44:19
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Detail is the key here...

You may have a manhole outside your home that is ready for FTTH, but it may NOT be the manhole you are connected to, and am guessing you are on the edge of two cabinets, without a full address difficult to say a lot more. Guessing is fun, but ultimately it is confusing you.

I can say with some certainty that I'm connected to cab 49T which the cab next to my house. This is because the ADSL checker says I am and OpenReach said I was when I contacted them. They're is always a chance that I'm not connected to the cab, if that was the case then there would alot of people with duff information including BT/OpenReach (wouldn't be too much of shock).
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
NOTE: A existing TPON cabinet WILL NOT mean an area shows as fibre enabled.

Thanks for the clarification. So where is the When and Where checker getting it's information from?
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
What exist hardware was in the manhole, you can ID it using http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/fibre-milton-keynes/ which has everything they shove in the ground for a FTTP roll-out.

I did not see what they finally installed yesterday. From pervious viewings it was just a really big end cap for alot of armoured cable - sorry.
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
In terms of residents paying for it, probably looking at £1,500 plus for each property if you are going to gap fund yourselves when Openreach has previously decided to not take the risk, and would need 15 to 20 of you to commit to this sort of spending for it to happen. Even then it might be a year or more since they are very busy and fitting you into the timeline will be difficult, particularly as council projects have deadlines looming.

IMPORTANT: For those properties served by the manhole you have seen, if it has fibre blown to the manifold and the GPON is active, then when they order FTTP the final bit of fibre over their garden etc is installed and this has a wholesale cost of £99+VAT but is often done for free at the retail level.


Thanks for all the details. I have PM'd you my details.
Satpal
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 26-Feb-15 13:50:47
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: schander] [link to this post]
 
No armoured cable used for the fibre, just a black pipe 1 inch in diameter with yellow stripe on it, that carries a dozen or so smaller tubes that the fibre is then blown in.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Feb-15 16:13:13
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: schander] [link to this post]
 
I used "fibre gubbins" as a catchall, as we can't be sure exactly what is required in your particular manhole.

What is needed through the cabinet area amounts to:
- A fibre spine, made up of a chain of aggregation nodes, routing back to the head end.
One of the aggregation nodes will be designated as the connection point for your cabinet area. They are likely to lie on the existing E-side copper routes, and close to some, if not all, PCPs.
- Fibre(s) connecting to the Aggregation Node
- Those fibres will run to a splitter node, or a chain of splitter nodes, in your cabinet area.
These fibre will likely be in COF-201 mini-cable; this multi-strand cable can be blown down ducting, but individual fibres are not blown in BFT in this part of the network.
- Splitter node(s) located in some of the manholes
A splitter node can supply up to 128 properties.
- Fibre from the splitter node to a Fibre Distribution Point.
This fibre is probably physically similar to that above.
- Fibre DP located in a manhole relatively close to you
A fibre DP can supply up to 20 or 24 properties.
- BFT from the fibre DP to a 12-tube or 7-tube manifold
- Manifold located in a manhole very close to you, or at the top of a pole.

When you order, the BFT gets extended from the manifold to your house, and individual fibres get blown from the Fibre DP through the BFT into an external splice point - a small box on the outside of your house.

That is slightly contrary to what MrSaffron says - he mentions that fibre is blown as far as the manifold before you order, which would imply that a splice is done in the manifold. My belief is that the manifold will only hold an airtight joint in the BFT, not a splice (unlikely at the top of a pole) and that fibre will only be blown through that joint (from the Fibre DP) after you have placed your order.

As you can see, there is quite a lot of infrastructure that needs to be in place ... and what you have seen in the manhole could be a splitter node, fibre DP or a manifold. A "really big end cap" sounds more likely to be a splitter node, than anything else. I guess it depends on your definition of "really big".
Standard User schander
(regular) Thu 26-Feb-15 20:39:48
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Re: Fibre in cab - BDUK funding still required?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
No armoured cable used for the fibre, just a black pipe 1 inch in diameter with yellow stripe on it, that carries a dozen or so smaller tubes that the fibre is then blown in.

This I definitely saw.

satpal
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