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Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Thu 19-Mar-15 10:36:30
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Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on recei


[link to this post]
 
I upgraded to FTTC/VDSL at 40/10 continuing with EE, in June 2014.

Basically it has been working very well until about two weeks back, when I noticed in a space of about two minutes, that the VDSL connection had been lost, both LEDs "Internet" and "Broadband" on the Brightbox 2, going OFF progressively, then returning progressively, Broadband first, followed by Internet.

The voice phone calls were not interrupted.

As a quick check, I did some Quiet Line Tests - but nothing untoward.



Yesterday evening, it occurred again on three out of four calls, from my grand-daughters Samsung Galaxy 4G mobile, to our land-line number, again without loss of the phone conversations; and nothing showing up on QLTs.



It has recurred again at least twice this morning; and there may be some association with mobile phone calls; but not absolute.



I am aware hat there was at least one other VDSL upgrade in our PCP on Monday this week; and that another 48 Filter Links were added in the FTTC's second block of sockets yesterday - BUT I would expect that if either event had any effects, they would be more consistent.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 19-Mar-15 10:49:39
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying they occurred when she was making the call?

If so, it suggests that the mobile transmission was swamping the modem input stage which could result in te loss of signal/sync ans signal amplifiers get "confused".


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Thu 19-Mar-15 11:33:24
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Morning MHC

The three calls were being made from her house, about 500 Metres away (over quarter-mile), so assumed to be through the normal Vodaphone mast (certainly further away), and over the many miles to the inter-change point to land-line - then back through the conventional land-line to our house.



I did manage to do a few tests more recently this morning, with that Samsung mobile in my house, virtually alongside the VDS modem - without any interruptions occurring; and "answering" on the same land-line cordless phone hand set.

All the land-line involved is underground, apart from at cabinets.

Even the entry point into my house is effectively underground, basically there are no obvious signs of phone-line entry points to any of the houses on this estate. You could walk round our house and not even be aware that a land-line was present.


So"swamping" by proximity and EMR is most unlikely to be occurring.




The interruptions last night occurred very shortly after the initial ring; but as my lady-wife answered in another room, I can't be precisely sure when each interruption occurred, apart from them being very early in the ring sequence.


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 19-Mar-15 11:43:00
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Your original post gave the impression that she could have been at your house. You have now ruled that out.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Thu 19-Mar-15 11:55:16
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I should have made that clear.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 19-Mar-15 11:57:28
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
beginnings of a High Resistance fault, maybe wiring disturbed when connecting someone else.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 19-Mar-15 12:14:09
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
It could be a fault in the house - probably unlikely however give all the plugs and sockets a quick check and any IDCs you are responsible for.

Most likely, something was disturbed when the cabinet upgrade happened or a new user added following the upgrade. Maybe an HR fault or a loose connection. Getting it resolved quickly might be difficult, unless you can demonstrate it reliably and "on-demand" when reporting the problem. If you can, then report it and get your ISP to call you back on your mobile number, then for your ISP to monitor your line whilst a call is made to the land line.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Sat 21-Mar-15 07:19:46
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Morning MHC and Andrew

My suspicions are also in the D-side from the link connection in the PCP to the FTTC, back through the PCP and onwards through the underground wiring to my house, about 350 Metres total; and with the PCP being the most likely location.

It started a couple of weeks before the FTTC was opened, a rare event in itself, for the additional 48 filter links were added.

I do know from talking to a neighbour that he was waiting for an upgrade some time in early to middle of March; and I certainly saw the PCP opened up for an upgrade; BUT that was distinctly LATER than the start of this problem, so most unlikely to be the cause.

There is the possibility of earlier upgrades which I have not spotted.


Apart from cabinet access, there has not been any obvious work either on the phone system or other systems that may interfere locally.

BUT thinking about that aspect, there have been major roadworks replacing tarmac etc down to base level in the High Street; and it is very likely that my PCP E-side runs down there - acknowledging that the VDSL is in Fibre in that area ... so should not be affected unless actually broken.

Interesting!

The depth of work there has been such as to expose and remove an inverted short section of tram rail, which had been put down in 1909/1910 to act as one of a series of "sleeper" blocks for the running rail, so the High Street has been excavated to a general depth of approaching about 10 inches/25 centimetres.

-----------------

Internally, there has been no changes to the phone/BB wiring; and the majority has to be directly and knowingly accessed for there to be any disturbance.

No new equipment added and none removed.

------------------------

I noted that the DSLAM is now restricting my BB to 35/8.5, as against 40/10 from June 2014 to Feb 2015.

The connection during that earlier era had held up for at least 450 hours in one period; and generally of that order.

Yesterday it was 31/7; and the rise this morning to 35/8.5 in conjunction with the connection having held for over 12 hours, compared to minutes and hours recently, may be a good sign.

----------------------

So it looks as though I will have to be patient and continue to observe.
Standard User edwincluck
(learned) Sat 21-Mar-15 12:42:18
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Mr Saffron nails it.

When your daughter places a call to you from her mobile, she creates a Ring Signal on your landline. The Ring Signal is 75 volt AC at 25 Hz superimposed onto the 50 volt DC on a UK landline.

That additional alternating current from the Ring Signal can temporarily break through the surface film resistance in a faulty joint somewhere on your line. That's called a 'Wetting Current', or in British-English, sometimes called a 'Whetting Current'.

That 'wetting' current - and that transient sealing of a high-resistance joint - causes a temporary change in the propagation characteristics of your line. That confuses the line drivers in the DSLAM and CPE modems. They look at each other and say "[censored]". Before promptly desyncing.

In the video below is a brief discussion on 'wetting' and 'wetters'; what causes them; remedies and so on.

Don't feel bad about it. We live in modern times. There's no stigma to having a 'wetter' on your line these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC1iVeenU6Q#t=3m25

iechyd da, eckiedoo!

---

Edited by edwincluck (Sat 21-Mar-15 15:49:14)

Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Wed 01-Apr-15 20:45:51
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Re: Short losses and reboots of FTTC/VDSL, particularly on r


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Evening MHC and Andrew

Some progress on this.

It now seems likely that it is a phone extension cable, chewed by one of our cats!

I disconnected it; and since had no obvious problems; the connection now having stayed up for 101 hours.

-----------------------

We already had an elderly cordless phone trio, BT 6300, for many years, along with two fixed phones, plus SKY Box connection.

At Christmas 2014, my lady-wife purchased a BT 2000 Twin version, unbeknown to myself; and without her being aware of the possible complexities.


I simply plugged the new Base unit in, complete with Splitter, without any additional extending etc as mains sockets and a phone socket were conveniently to hand; and the pair worked fine until the problems in March 2015, about 70 days..

In March, she reorganised some of the furniture in that room; resulting in the new Base Unit having to be moved - and a phone extension lead being needed.


The only extension I had long enough was a very neat reel version; but using flat, very fine, ribbon cable - rather like flat, flexible Printed Circuit ribbon, about 5 mm wide.

This worked without problems until as I now have realised, one of our cats chewed it apparently - I have not yet carefully checked that extension.


Anyway, I disconnected it about 100 hours back; and we have had no more problems, resulting in the new cordless set not being available - no great problem.


The VDSL continues to be at 35/7.5 Mbps; and I have deliberately avoided resetting, to see if the DSLAM will move it back up to the 40/10, after a period of continuous running.

That slower speed is no problem, so we can wait and see.

===============

But it does point to the Splitter.Filter not providing any protection in such circumstances, so it seems likely that if similar, intermittent "shorts" arise in the lengthy E-side back to the Exchange, that the Splitter/Filter Link in the FTTC cabinet would not provide any protection.

If that is correct, it does point to the need to ensure that the whole of the E-side, as well as the D-side, should be checked etc prior to upgrading to FTTC/VDSL.

==========

I did try to get the BT 2000 Handsets to work with the BT 6300 Base - no luck so far, probably the BT 6300 is not GAP-enabled.
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