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Standard User olicuk
(newbie) Mon 06-Apr-15 00:15:24
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Street Works & Street Furniture


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Following our campaign last year, Openreach 're-evaluated' our cabinet (PCP102, Basingstoke) and stated they would provision it for FTTC - by March this year. Surprise surprise, we've now in April and nothing has happened. Whilst we await for a reply from BT's Regional Partnership Director who is looking into the matter for us, Hampshire County Council's Superfast team appear to have told one resident via twitter that work is 'on hold' (though the cabinet is being commercially, not BDUK, funded).

Whilst there could be a million and one reasons for a cabinet being on hold, second to resource availability for actually carrying out the works, one forerunner for delays to cabinet enablement seems to be for wayleave reasons (though the current PCP is on an area of grass circa 20m x 3m which is believed to be publically owned, includes a lamp post, and is next to a dwelling, hopefully making siting and power provision for the fibre twin a breeze). Does anyone know:

a) what type of power circuit is required for an FTTC cabinet (or similar powered street furniture); are street lighting circuits suitable, or those supplying residential properties, or something else?

b) if we're told there is a wayleave issue, but not who the non-consenting landowner is, are there any ways to determine whom the landowners of a particular area of land are (eg/ can you enquire via the Land Registry)? It would be unlikely any land in the vicinity of our cabinet would be anything other than public land, or awaiting adoption from one of two developers - it's the developers we're most concerned may be holding things up.

c) there are two cabinets already FTTC enabled very close to my own property (one <40m, the other <100m); Openreach will of course never change their routing and connect any of us into those, but what is the viability of installing a new pole or piece of street furniture (or using the existing bus stop) close to an existing fibre cabinet, having FTTC or even FTTPoD (and power), installed to it, and creating a local Wi-Fi service from that? Do any companies exist that already do this (on a local basis, rather than those covering whole cities with wifi), or does anyone think it's something worth exploring further (if Openreach now go cold on us)?

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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 06-Apr-15 08:14:06
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
If the land is registered, you can find the relevant title(s) on the Land Registry web site, then buy a copy of the title registers for a small fee of around £3 each.

If the land is not registered, identifying the owner(s) is much trickier.

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Apr-15 09:39:51
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
a) what type of power circuit is required for an FTTC cabinet (or similar powered street furniture); are street lighting circuits suitable, or those supplying residential properties, or something else?
The men digging the power for our recently installed cabinet told me that they stopped using street light circuits because if say someone knocked over a lamp post, the power would be turned off to make it safe and it could be days before it was restored. They therefore will use the residential supply as if that goes off there is a requirement for that to be restored ASAP.

The battery backup in the cabs I was told is good for around 7 hours.

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer


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Standard User chris6273
(committed) Mon 06-Apr-15 10:02:51
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
a) what type of power circuit is required for an FTTC cabinet (or similar powered street furniture); are street lighting circuits suitable, or those supplying residential properties, or something else?


Typically the contracted power company will connect the cabinet's UPS to the residential power supply in the street. As has been mentioned there are issues with using the street lighting circuits due to the way they are designed to trip if a vehicle hits them.

Also street lighting circuits may not be available in all cabinet locations.

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A.K.A: Chrisszzyy

Telewest (2004-2006): 256Kbps -> 512Kbps
University of Portsmouth's Horrible Network (2013 - 2014) - Supposedly 100/100Mbps
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Standard User Icaras
(member) Mon 06-Apr-15 15:00:38
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
In reply to a post by olicuk:
a) what type of power circuit is required for an FTTC cabinet (or similar powered street furniture); are street lighting circuits suitable, or those supplying residential properties, or something else?
The men digging the power for our recently installed cabinet told me that they stopped using street light circuits because if say someone knocked over a lamp post, the power would be turned off to make it safe and it could be days before it was restored. They therefore will use the residential supply as if that goes off there is a requirement for that to be restored ASAP.

The battery backup in the cabs I was told is good for around 7 hours.


Yes and not only that but Openreach would know there is an issue straight away due to the cabinet telemetry circuit. They would then use a generator to ensure the cabinet stays on. The battery backup just gives them a few hours to organise a generator etc.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Thu 16-Apr-15 01:51:46
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: chris6273] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chris6273:
In reply to a post by olicuk:
a) what type of power circuit is required for an FTTC cabinet (or similar powered street furniture); are street lighting circuits suitable, or those supplying residential properties, or something else?


Typically the contracted power company will connect the cabinet's UPS to the residential power supply in the street. As has been mentioned there are issues with using the street lighting circuits due to the way they are designed to trip if a vehicle hits them.

Also street lighting circuits may not be available in all cabinet locations.


Our local BDUK project confirmed this: BT need a higher reliability to the power supply than the street light circuit.

Until then, it hadn't particularly crossed my mind that the street lights could be considered to be a lower grade circuit than residential supply.

That might explain why my very first FTTC cabinet was delayed hellishly for power - with 3 sets of roadworks (each a month apart) going in different directions...
Standard User radiomarko
(experienced) Thu 16-Apr-15 07:22:37
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Despite there being 3 power options available within 8 metres of our new cab a lamp post supply was chosen over a domestic at the front of a property and a rather odd short metal post on the grass verge 3 meters from the cab that had a supply and a HT current warning sticker. Even stranger was the fact that an 8 metre trench to the domestic supply was dug but then rejected.

So in this case a lamp post was deemed good, just 3 weeks ago.

-.-. --.-
BT Infinity 2, HG612, Billion 7800N; 79987/19999 Kbps. Online since 1987. Macs since 1979. Dreambox fun. Advanced Radio Amateur Licence and an anorak.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 16-Apr-15 09:40:31
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
b) if we're told there is a wayleave issue, but not who the non-consenting landowner is, are there any ways to determine whom the landowners of a particular area of land are (eg/ can you enquire via the Land Registry)? It would be unlikely any land in the vicinity of our cabinet would be anything other than public land, or awaiting adoption from one of two developers - it's the developers we're most concerned may be holding things up.


If it's awaiting adoption that will definitely be a problem. Developers won't be keen on having their land dug for fear it will ruin the adoption process.

You can certainly find out who owns what land. The land registry or even the plans for the development are your friend but almost certainly if it's pre-adoption it's the developer building the houses on that side of the road.

In our case the power dig had to be done across private land and Openreach agreed to do a full width reinstatement as take up was expected to be high and would cover the extra reinstatement cost.
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Thu 16-Apr-15 10:50:06
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Noting the various comments regarding electricity supplies for FTTCs, our local FTTC offers another variation.

Almost immediately outside my house, there is a T junction, the "main" road being aligned South to North, the minor, dead-end road going East for about 500 Metres.

About 2009, a shared cycle path was incorporated in the footpath on the main road adjacent to my house, heading south in to town.

A suitable post, with signs and lamp was erected more-or-less at the start of that cycle path, on the south side of the junction.

A similar post, with similar signs and lamp, was also erected on the north side of the junction - so NOT at the actual start of the cycle path.

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The local PCP (of many years) is on the north side of the junction, on a reasonable area of grass etc, with space for many more cabinets if necessary; and with electricity supplies also readily available.

The PCP is well set back from the road, probably about 10 Metres, so relatively safe re road accidents.

However, the associated FTTC was erected on the south side of the Junction, on the road side of the footpath/cycle path, so about 45 Metres from the PCP.

The links to the PCP have to head about 5 Metres south to an underground chamber, before turning north, under the junction to the PCP on the north side of the junction.


This location also tends to make the road corner more "blind", close to a blind hump and a primary school double-crossing, the school being on the west side of the junction; and with the official Pedestrian-Only entrance, also the more convenient entrance for the majority of pupils.


The ownership of all of the ground involved is well-known and clearly registered, whilst only two short lengths of ducting were required, whether the FTTC had been erected by the PCP; or in its now-actual location.

==============

For power, the south-side FTTC was connected to the south-side cycle path actual-start sign post, in itself relatively close, about 4 Metres. (apologies for previous PCP)

The FTTC etc came in to operation about March 2014; and orders for VDSL were accepted and implemented.

About two months later, the cycle path signs and lamp were removed from that actual start post; leaving only the FTTC connected at its base, with a now-bare post heading skywards.

The signs were then re-mounted on another existing north-side post; but located in such a way that they suggest that the cycle-path heads in to the east-bound dead-end!

============

Another confusion has arisen.

Generally the majority of the town is a 20 MPH Zone, including the dead-end; but that main road is still 30 MPH, except for about 200 Metres centred on the crossings, which temporarily are School-timing 20 MPH.

Entering the east-bound dead-end, there are correctly permanent 20 MPH Zone Entry signs.

But the 20 MPH Zone END signs for leaving that dead-end, were removed when the other signage changes were carried out.

====================

So clearly there is very little logic applied to the installation of FTTCs and any associated work.

Edited by eckiedoo (Thu 16-Apr-15 16:38:06)

Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 16-Apr-15 11:37:05
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Re: Street Works & Street Furniture


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In the OP's case I would guess it was as a section 58 order potentially holding up delivery, but I would hope work would start in the coming months.
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