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Standard User justintime15
(newbie) Sat 02-May-15 05:14:50
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FTTC/FTTH in York


[link to this post]
 
Hi

I recently moved to York and was hoping to get at least an FTTC service at my new address (YO10 4DL).

Alas it appears that the cabinet I am connected to (106) is not going to be upgraded anytime soon and BT appear to have changed their thinking regarding FTTC/H deployment. Grateful for any more accurate information and whether complaining to BT/others might make any difference.....

The background for information:

Initially BT said (Oct14):

"Thank you for your email. Apologises for the delay. Regarding the delay for YORK exchange cabinet 106. The estimated completion date that we have for this cabinet is 05-01-2015 At the moment the project is in progress"

Then in Dec14 BT said:

"Thank you for your email. The cabinet which serves your property is being upgraded for Fibre To The Premise service (FTTP). The expected completion date is the end of February."

Obviously I was excited by the prospect of FTTH....

But then Feb15 BT said:

Thank you for your email. I am sorry about the delay in replying. The upgrade of your cabinet is still under review. Your date may have slipped because as we build, we often find unforeseen challenges and complexities that we simply couldn’t plan for. These may need either more time to work around or a different solution altogether.

And recently BT (April15) said:

I have checked the progress on cabinet 106 upgrade to fibre to the premises and I am really sorry to tell you it has been put on hold for the foreseeable future.

** I then checked with Superfast North Yorkshire (BDUK) who confirmed that this area was part of BT's commercial roll out:

We have checked your postcode and you are not part of the SFNY roll out plans. However, your postcode indicates that you are covered by the commercial roll out of fibre being undertaken by BT. Unfortunately, SFNY has no detailed information on this roll out.

** I also contacted York City Council following reports they had parted ways with SFNY for the second phase of BDUK funding. The council indicated that (April15):

The area you describe is an area where BT has said it is to invest commercially i.e. without public monies and without funding from the Superfast North Yorkshire programme. We recognise that it must be frustrating when Cabinets are provided by BT but not commissioned. There is very little we can do to change this and we have encouraged BT to take a more positive approach. The best response is for existing and potential customers to encourage BT to make best use of their asset i.e. get the Cabinet commissioned/working.

As far as Superfast North Yorkshire is concerned, this programme has come to the end of its natural life. There is to be a phase 2 and we are not teaming up with Superfast North Yorkshire for phase 2 but are working with west Yorkshire authorities. We were uncomfortable with phase 1 and the decision making process. Decision making was devolved, not by the Council but by NYNET (which is a company set up by North Yorkshire County Council), to BT. In phase 2 we i.e. the City of York Council, will be determining where to invest public funds: not BT. This will provide much better value for money from the use of public funding and meet our objectives.

You may have picked up press reports that York is to be the UK’s first Gigabit City. As a result, premises in urban areas will have the opportunity to connect to gigabit speeds on a network which is outside of BTs. This competition - the first of its type in the UK - might well provide a) the incentive for BT to commission the Cabinet; and b) provide an alternative and faster (1000mbit/s) connectivity for York residents and businesses.

....however they couldn't tell me if Cabinet 106 was going to get any WestYorkshire BDUK phase 2 funding, but I assume it hasn't been announced yet given elections etc.

It is all rather annoying and I was wondering whether BT can just drop plans to upgrade a cabinet they told BDUK that was part of their commercial roll out?

I have also walked around to see the cabinet and it appears that it is accessible with plenty of room for an additional fibre cabinet with power provision unlikely to be a problem. I also noted some unde-road ducting that looks quite new taking the copper from the PCP 106 to nearby telegraph poles to service my property. Would BT done this work to improve connections prior to a FTTC/H deployment? Further exploration identified that on Fulford Road cabinet 46 (a couple of hundred meters from Cabinet 106) has been upgraded and I think there is some FTTH close by to some residential properties.

I wonder also whether the announcement that York City is teaming up with GiGabit(?) to become a GiGabit City has had a negative impact on BT completing their rollout in my area? So perhaps it is just bad timing.

My concern is that the gigabit rollout might take years and I will left with slow ADSL2 speeds for years.

Anyhow if there is more information on what is going on I would be very grateful to know.

Many thanks
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 02-May-15 09:40:09
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Re: FTTC/FTTH in York


[re: justintime15] [link to this post]
 
Can you get virgin media? If so public money is unlikely to be available.

CityFibre is building now but wont say where in York, should be 20,000 homes this year.

No obligation on BT it is able to change plans just as Virgin Media with its expansion plans can change, same rules.

The cityfibre makes phase2 interesting as they may say they'll do whole city but again no guarantees

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 12-May-15 11:17:22
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Re: FTTC/FTTH in York


[re: justintime15] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by justintime15:
As far as Superfast North Yorkshire is concerned, this programme has come to the end of its natural life. There is to be a phase 2 and we are not teaming up with Superfast North Yorkshire for phase 2 but are working with west Yorkshire authorities. We were uncomfortable with phase 1 and the decision making process. Decision making was devolved, not by the Council but by NYNET (which is a company set up by North Yorkshire County Council), to BT. In phase 2 we i.e. the City of York Council, will be determining where to invest public funds: not BT. This will provide much better value for money from the use of public funding and meet our objectives.


Ah, politics, eh? I'm not sure the West Yorkshire process is much different from the North Yorkshire one.

In truth, I'd say that the reason York has swapped from SFNY to SFWY is because the local council has also hopped into a general consortium with the West Yorkshire councils - the "West Yorkshire Combined Authority." I'm not hugely convinced it will have a magically larger say within that setup either.

However, what is clear is that, while the original SFNY project was one of the first in the country to get approval, and has now reached its original target (if not yet fully finished), SFWY was one of the last. York probably has something of a wait on its hands for SFWY to get around to the SEP phases.

....however they couldn't tell me if Cabinet 106 was going to get any WestYorkshire BDUK phase 2 funding, but I assume it hasn't been announced yet given elections etc.


As far as I'm aware, SFWY hasn't signed a contract (or extension) as yet. They say they've finished the OMR and public consultation, but I can't find any documents.
http://www.superfastwestyorkshire.co.uk/resources/ph...

Once signed, you can expect the detailed plans (ie which cabinets, when) to be developed over the following 6 months or so, and work on the ground to start after that. The current rollout seems due to complete in September, so I doubt any deployment work will start before that.

It is all rather annoying and I was wondering whether BT can just drop plans to upgrade a cabinet they told BDUK that was part of their commercial roll out?


Yes, they can. Problems with commercial upgrades (such as a power connection being more difficult/costly than expected) can cause them to become unviable.

In the SEP plans, other councils have been taking a pragmatic approach, and have included an "at risk" category for commercial plans that might not happen. This is then used to allow them to include the area in their project if the need arises.

Without seeing the phase 2 consultation documents, it is hard to know how the WYCA are approaching this.

I have also walked around to see the cabinet and it appears that it is accessible with plenty of room for an additional fibre cabinet with power provision unlikely to be a problem.

What you can't see turns out to be as important. Some sites for FTTC cabinets have turned out to be unviable because the underground services have left no room.

I also noted some unde-road ducting that looks quite new taking the copper from the PCP 106 to nearby telegraph poles to service my property. Would BT done this work to improve connections prior to a FTTC/H deployment?


You've seen ducting? Or just new tarmac on the road surface?

Such signs might indicate work having been done for FTTP, but it is unlikely to have been needed for FTTC. Perhaps this was work done when FTTP looked likely, before they hit an insurmountable (ie expensive) obstacle.

I wonder also whether the announcement that York City is teaming up with GiGabit(?) to become a GiGabit City has had a negative impact on BT completing their rollout in my area? So perhaps it is just bad timing.


CityFibre have had a long project running to provide a fibre ring in the city, aimed at businesses,and IIRC supported by the council. There is now a much younger partnership with Sky and TalkTalk to run FTTP for residential properties.

These projects have been relatively invisible - I haven't seen a single indication of either expected coverage or dates anywhere ... but you'd expect that they'd be talking to SFNY and/or SFWY to ensure that BDUK funding didn't overlay in their planned coverage areas. However, they may value secrecy over the possibility that BT finds out where they are going.

But I don't think BT's handling of your cabinet is necessarily affected by CityFibre's plans. It is much more likely to be caused by changes in BT's own financial thresholds. But it does seem clear that the commercial rollout is progressing slowly while resources are focussed on meeting the BDUK projects' deadlines.

It'll be interesting to see what pans out.


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