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Standard User AL66
(learned) Thu 03-Sep-15 10:43:40
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Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[link to this post]
 
Just reading the other thread about multiple PCPs in an ex TPON area.

Are Openreach missing an opportunity for a conversion to GPON FTTP?

Anyone got any idea how much, if any, of the original infrastructure could be adapted for GPON? I'd guess the endpoint hardware is useless but what about the existing fibre runs, fibre tubing and ducts? How much of the TPON infrastructure would have survived copper overlays done a decade ago for ADSL?
Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 03-Sep-15 11:19:30
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
Unlikely that the fibre goes anywhere useful. Nga has been built as a new network with a different set of targets, one of which is to ultimately make many local exchanges redundant.
Duct is duct, whether it carries copper or fibre tubing, the main concern is where it goes to/from, does it have space and is it clear. Chances are that there is very little Tpon network that could be usefully re- used
Standard User kingbiscit
(member) Thu 03-Sep-15 13:12:14
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
I was surprised that it isn't actually more cost effective to deploy FTTP than 5* FTTC cabs for such a small area.

When I quizzed openreach about it, they didn't really have an answer.

Edited by kingbiscit (Thu 03-Sep-15 13:12:27)


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 03-Sep-15 13:31:18
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: kingbiscit] [link to this post]
 
Who in Openreach did you quiz? If it was an engineer then likely they wouldn't know.

The problem with FTTP is that final few yards to the property. With FTTC there is pretty much nothing that needs to be done within the bounds of the house. With FTTP they might have to dig up driveways, run internal fibre cabling, etc, etc. The difficulties of an FTTP install can be significant.
Standard User kingbiscit
(member) Thu 03-Sep-15 13:37:11
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
It was at a Connecting Cheshire event, someone running the project. He said they heavily favoured FTTC as people could get it without any additional work e.g. it can just be turned on. FTTC would require an installation at the property.

Personally I think its very short sited, the estate has ducts all the way round it.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 03-Sep-15 13:43:31
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: kingbiscit] [link to this post]
 
My brother moved into a brand new estate that had ducts all around. The estate 18 months after he moved in finally got FTTP. It took another 6 weeks for him to get it because, despite being brand new, the ducts to 5 houses were blocked. I don't know how much resource it took to clear the blockages but it shows that even where there are ducts there is potentially more work to do to get the fibre in. Plus, the it took 2 engineer visits, 1 to run fibre to the outside of the building and then another to run it along the building and into the house. Plus fitting of the ONT inside the house and getting it all set up.

Still quite a bit more worked involved than for FTTC and therefore more costly to BT.

The other thing to consider is that a very small number of ISPs resell the FTTP variant. That means anyone who has FTTP is far more limited in who they can buy services from - from a choice perspective FTTC is better - although that is something of a chicken and egg situation as more FTTP would increase the likelihood of ISPs reselling it.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 03-Sep-15 13:45:19
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: kingbiscit] [link to this post]
 
That will play a factor, but if FTTP was say half the price of FTTP then am sure that would have been used.

The need for visits to do the final fibre drop and splice it into the home should not be under estimated, plus finding yet more blocked ducts due to ground movement/roots adds to the roll-out difficulty.

In effect you spend less on technology, but a lot more on labour and time for FTTP.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User AL66
(learned) Thu 03-Sep-15 14:28:40
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: kingbiscit] [link to this post]
 
I was interested to find out whether TPON leaves anything useful to make FTTP easier than it might otherwise be - sounds like it doesn't. But, by definition, TPON will be on a post 1990 development which like other similar developments will have full ducting to everyone's doorsteps.

Sooner or later Openreach need to bit the bullet an increase the FTTP footprint - these estates would seem to be a good place to start as for the most part it shouldn't have the issues of crossing gardens and direct buried cables. I think it's time maybe they should try a trial area to find out if it is significantly easier than other brownfields. Cost of FTTC cabs and associated power feeds, etc can be offset against it plus the end result is future proof.

Do these TPON nodes have existing power? If not FTTP then perhaps it makes FTTrN/G.Fast straightforward?
Standard User Icaras
(committed) Fri 04-Sep-15 17:11:16
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: AL66] [link to this post]
 
Yes TPON cabinets have power to them. As has been mentioned previously the fibre used for TPON might not be going to the same exchange as the FTTC fibre needs to go to. If it's heading in the right direction I can't think of a reason why you couldn't slice into the TPON fibre at the nearest FTTC aggregation node and connect it there. Obviously the other end would need connecting to the new FTTC cab too. Saving on labour.

But there might be something technically different about the fibre used back then. To me fibre is fibre though and it's what you put at each end that makes the difference but like I say I could be wrong.
Standard User kitcat
(committed) Fri 04-Sep-15 19:55:59
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Re: Ex TPON areas - FTTC/FTTP


[re: Icaras] [link to this post]
 
Icarus

NO, TPON ( Telephony over Passive Optical Network ) cabinets do not have power to them , the operative word is Passive. The cabinets are pillars really for the final splitter. 32 way.

The fibre could be reused easily for a GPON solution or FTTP but thee is little space for the final connection.

The final run to the house should have been sub-duct, it was suggested to make this figure of 8 with the Cu in the big part leaving the fibre to be blown down the small part later. But I don't think all sites used this.

They were usually new estates so were buried under drives and would be difficult ( expenses) to dig up now.

The splice point would have to be rebuilt to take the final splices which could also be expensive, TPON was just a connection to a 30 Connection Cu unit per 'close' usually up to 24 homes.

Much to my regret the cheapest / quickest solution is a new cab on the overlay Cu run. But it really is a shame not to reuse the fibre when it was 20m from your door.

As you may have gathered I had something to do with planning some sites back in the early 1990s, it was a great way to reach a long way from the exchange for voice, some were well outside the normal limits for copper and would have needed a new exchange building. Shame the 'pillars' were not bigger but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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