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Standard User Cagneyrat
(newbie) Sun 01-Nov-15 16:11:25
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Connection always dropped in the mornings


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I've been with Sky Fibre for a few months. In the beginning it worked perfectly. I was getting 40,000 downstream, 10,000 upstream on the router stats.

However, a couple of weeks ago the problems started. Every morning one week I would wake up and find the connection had dropped, and it would not come back unless I reset the router (I did try waiting for several hours). Resetting the router did bring it back for the rest of the day, but it would be gone in the morning.

I spoke to Sky and was told to unplug extensions, leave the Sky boxes unplugged from the phone line, and see what happened. All was well, so I plugged the upstairs phone back in.

Everything worked for a couple of weeks until the morning (or overnight) drop-outs began to happen consistently again. My router stats now report 5,994 upstream and 29,996 downstream (meaning I've lost a significant chunk of speed). I've now plugged into the test socket, to see if I can track down the issue.

I will be phoning customer support tomorrow, but as they're sometimes not too knowledgeable, I wondered if any here might have any idea what's wrong? It seems odd that it's always in the mornings that it's dropped and usually stable during the day. Yesterday when it had dropped, the Internet light on the router was orange, but today, there was no Internet light at all.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 01-Nov-15 16:13:51
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: Cagneyrat] [link to this post]
 
Do you suspect the upstairs phone?
Standard User Cagneyrat
(newbie) Sun 01-Nov-15 16:19:15
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I suppose I may find out because now I'm plugged into the test socket the extensions are inactive.

I suspected it could be related to noise, since I seem to recall it can fluctuate throughout the day. My noise margin is 16.1 dB downstream and 16.16 upstream. Yesterday, when I first reset, the noise margin was only 1 dB downstream, and it had to be reset again before it would work.

Possibly all the resetting is causing my speed to drop, but it's not avoidable at the moment. Hopefully I'll get the speed back when the problem's sorted.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 01-Nov-15 17:24:21
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: Cagneyrat] [link to this post]
 
FTTC tends to not like extension wiring being present particularly when using dangly microfilters, generally best to fit a VDSL faceplate e.g. £10 on Amazon to filter the negative effect of extension wiring at the master socket (just plug the modem into the socket at the master) and also don't need microfilters at the extensions once faceplate is fitted.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User edwincluck
(member) Sun 01-Nov-15 20:27:24
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: Cagneyrat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Cagneyrat:
a couple of weeks ago the problems started. Every morning one week I would wake up and find the connection had dropped, and it would not come back unless I reset the router (I did try waiting for several hours). Resetting the router did bring it back for the rest of the day, but it would be gone in the morning

This could be a problem at the ppp layer of the network protocol stack. i.e. nothing to do with the physical layer. The fact you have to reset the modem-router to temporarily resolve it, indicates some sort of software problem higher up the stack. We had similar - a line sync but no ppp link. Due to persistent chap authentication failures at the server. Plusnet seemed hopeless at resolving it so we left them in the end.
Everything worked for a couple of weeks until the morning (or overnight) drop-outs began to happen consistently again. My router stats now report 5,994 upstream and 29,996 downstream (meaning I've lost a significant chunk of speed).

Alas, all par for the course with BT's poorly-implemented FTTC offering. Even now, there's only haphazard support for G.INP and still no sign of G.vector. Worse, vectoring upgrades in the future are greatly limited. Thanks to penny-pinching choices BT made earlier for CPE and CO kit. We all watch helplessly as our sync speeds plummet due to ever increasing crosstalk.

Our FTTC line - which originally achieved 44 Mbps line sync is now, due to crosstalk, just 26 Mbps. A drop of 40% over 18 months or so. At some point will it drop so low that we're back to ADSL speeds?
I will be phoning customer support tomorrow, but as they're sometimes not too knowledgeable, I wondered if any here might have any idea what's wrong? It seems odd that it's always in the mornings that it's dropped and usually stable during the day. Yesterday when it had dropped, the Internet light on the router was orange, but today, there was no Internet light at all.

Which device is this? The Sky Hub 2 (SR102)? What does an orange "Internet" light actually signify? That there's a DSL sync; but no ppp connectivity? Authentication failure, maybe? Is there an accessible system log on the device? Not that the SR102 manual has any useful troubleshooting advice, but is it a solid orange light or flashing?

Edited by edwincluck (Sun 01-Nov-15 20:47:15)

Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Nov-15 07:21:36
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: edwincluck] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by edwincluck:
This could be a problem at the ppp layer of the network protocol stack. i.e. nothing to do with the physical layer.
Sky use authenticated DHCP, not PPPoE. That said, you might be correct in saying that the problem is above the physical layer.

Standard User edwincluck
(member) Mon 02-Nov-15 17:21:04
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps related to the OP --- Sky has apparently b0rked by pushing an unstable firmware release for its SR102 router:

From the Sky Help Forum: Has there been a recent firmware upgrade on sr102???? as my connection keeps resetting

One Sky subscriber notes from his SR102 syslog that the DHCP lease is being renewed every half hour; which another user describes as "normal" behaviour for Sky routers. Hmm..

Although that doesn't explain why the OP in this thread is losing connectivity altogether. It sounds like the firmware is not recovering from a fault condition, maybe when a DHCP lease fails to renew?

Rolling back to a previous firmware revision reportedly solves the problem.

Good reasons to avoid Sky: unusual and little-supported protocols (DHCP Option 61); hidden authentication parameters; and locked-down proprietary hardware.
Standard User Cagneyrat
(newbie) Mon 02-Nov-15 17:24:34
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: Cagneyrat] [link to this post]
 
Having left it in the test socket overnight, the broadband was working OK this morning.

However, the log tells me that it did drop and immediately resynced at around 6:00 a.m., and it has synced at an even lower speed now. But I haven't had to reboot it today.

I'm going to see what happens tomorrow morning before ringing Sky again.
Standard User simon194
(experienced) Mon 02-Nov-15 19:53:50
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: edwincluck] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by edwincluck:
One Sky subscriber notes from his SR102 syslog that the DHCP lease is being renewed every half hour; which another user describes as "normal" behaviour for Sky routers. Hmm..

It's absolutely normal behaviour for a 60 minute lease to start requesting to renew the lease after 30 minutes. IIRC the default time interval between lease assignment and entering renewal state is half the lease time. Sky could always change this time interval if they wanted to.
In reply to a post by edwincluck:
Good reasons to avoid Sky: unusual and little-supported protocols (DHCP Option 61); hidden authentication parameters; and locked-down proprietary hardware.

Option 61 is actually used by DHCP clients to send it's unique ID to a DHCP servers so it's an integral part of the way DHCP works, it's just little supported by modem/router manufacturers. The authentication parameters are easy enough to extract from Sky's router to use in any router that supports options 60 and 61 and IPoE.
Standard User Cagneyrat
(newbie) Thu 05-Nov-15 18:39:38
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Re: Connection always dropped in the mornings


[re: Cagneyrat] [link to this post]
 
The connection seems to have been stable in the test socket.

Sky have narrowed the issue down to two potential problems: either a faulty faceplate or an issue with extension wiring. They're sending an Openreach engineer on Tuesday.

Openreach can't do anything about extension wiring, but am I right in thinking that if he fits a VDSL faceplate, either of those issues would be resolved anyway because it effectively isolates the fibre from the telephones?

Sky also said the speed dropping off was most likely due to router resets and that they could reset it to the original speed after the engineer visit.
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