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Standard User PhotoFiend
(regular) Mon 16-Nov-15 12:13:44
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Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[link to this post]
 
Hi everyone

I'm currently with Plusnet and have been for over a year, before them we were on BT Infinity 2.

We have FTTC and an Asus RT-N66U router.

We have an issue where we keep dropping connection, occasionally it will come back by itself, but mostly we have to flick the power switch on the modem or router, or both, to make it connect again.

Here's the interesting thing...

The connection only ever drops between 18:00 - 02:00 (OK, it once dropped at 17:15).

I have been on the phone to Plusnet about it and they said they could see it was dropping but before they could do anything else I had to run a PPPoE test - one ethernet into one PC for 24 hours.

As anyone with a busy house knows, that's rarely possible these days due to demands on the internet. Coupled with the fact we run a VOIP phone from the same line means I haven't been able to conduct this test and have just put up with it for months now.

Last night, the connection dropped again just as I was going to bed. I rebooted the router (not a hard reset) and thought 'I'll see what it's like in the morning'. This morning it was still down!

I reset the modem - and it's straight back up again.

Plusnet have basically blamed the router but I'm sure that it's the modem, or a Plusnet issue.

Here is another reason why I think it's Plusnet:

Connection only drops after 6PM - I think we're being caught in some sort of throttling measures.

Also, some months back when we tried to use Teamspeak we found that we were experiencing such bad packet loss >50% that we had to stop using it, again it only happened in the evenings. Not only that it happened to two friends of ours in different areas of the country who were also Plusnet customers, so definitely something happening at Plusnets end.

The only way I could fix it was by connecting to Teamspeak using a VPN and then it worked flawlessly.

Plusnet completely denied there was a problem even though some traceroutes showed timeouts between Plusnet and an external hop. Eventually it must have been resolved as we could suddenly all use it without issue.


So, after that rather wordy explaination...am I being fobbed off? Am I correct in thinking that based on the evidence it's not going to be the router, but either the modem, or a Plusnet issue? If so, what are the chances of getting it fixed?

Thanks!

Edited by PhotoFiend (Mon 16-Nov-15 12:27:28)

Standard User PhotoFiend
(regular) Mon 16-Nov-15 16:11:16
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm, 31 views and no replies.

Have I posted this in the correct section? I thought it may be better in here rather than the Plusnet specific forum, in case it's not ISP related.


Thanks.
Standard User edwincluck
(member) Mon 16-Nov-15 17:53:11
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
We have FTTC and an Asus RT-N66U router.

Device not issued by ISP.
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
I have been on the phone to Plusnet about it and they said they could see it was dropping but before they could do anything else I had to run a PPPoE test - one ethernet into one PC for 24 hours.

Eminently sensible instruction from plusnet.
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
the connection dropped again.. I rebooted the router (not a hard reset) .. This morning it was still down! I reset the modem - and it's straight back up again. Plusnet have basically blamed the router but I'm sure that it's the modem, or a Plusnet issue.

How are you "sure" it's the Openreach modem and not the Asus router?

Possibly the Asus isn't re-establishing a ppp when it needs to. It should be doing that automatically. As soon as the original link fails, re-establishing a new ppp link. It sounds like it's not doing that; possibly it's not configured to do it.

However when you "reset" the Openreach modem -- that "reset" is, in itself, perhaps enough to resolve the problem until next time.

Resetting the Openreach modem causes the ethernet layer to be torn down and brought back up - and that should trigger the Asus router into re-establish a new ppp session on top (pppoe).
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
am I being fobbed off? Am I correct in thinking that based on the evidence it's not going to be the router, but either the modem, or a Plusnet issue? If so, what are the chances of getting it fixed?

I think you need to do what Plusnet advise: create the ppp layer with the PC instead of with the Asus router. To eliminate the router as the cause.

It was a logical and simple instruction. For the sake of 24 hours loss of wifi/voip phone*, it seems a small price to pay in order to identify the cause of a problem that, by your own words, you have put up with "for months now".

* since it's only for a short 24hr test, it's probably not worth effort but it's possible to create the ppp layer with the PC, and then share that connection, using the Asus as the common gateway for wifi traffic.

[p.s. the teamspeak problem is probably unrelated and a non-sequitur. Teamspeak is not peer-to-peer for voip, but uses an intermediate server; problematic routing, perhaps a capacity issue to/with that server, outside of Plusnet's control, could be the cause of that packet loss. It doesn't immediately demonstrate plusnet's culpability]

Edited by edwincluck (Mon 16-Nov-15 17:59:10)


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 16-Nov-15 18:07:52
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
What modem are you using?

To try and get a better idea ideally need a modem that gives access to the VDSL2 line stats so can see if the VDSL2 is dropping, or there is just an issue between the modem and router.

Throttling from an ISP should not cause connection drops, it could cause your TeamSpeak issue but that sounds a different issue.

Have used an RT-N66U for ages, and occasionally it does seem to lock up and both modem and router needed a restart, rare enough (once a month) that never worried about it unduly.

Next time rather than restarting the devices try unplugging the Ethernet cable between the two for a minute.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User leexgx
(committed) Tue 17-Nov-15 03:45:20
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PhotoFiend:
The only way I could fix it was by connecting to Teamspeak using a VPN and then it worked flawlessly.

Plusnet completely denied there was a problem even though some traceroutes showed timeouts between Plusnet and an external hop. Eventually it must have been resolved as we could suddenly all use it without issue.


So, after that rather wordy explanation...am I being fobbed off? Am I correct in thinking that based on the evidence it's not going to be the router, but either the modem, or a Plusnet issue? If so, what are the chances of getting it fixed?

Thanks!


or just plug in the Provided router from Plusnet unplug yours and plug there's back in and change the wireless settings on the plusnet one to match your asus router so you dont have to reconnect all your devices back up (make sure VOIP apps still work)

does sound like the Asus router is not detecting that the link is down

restarting the BT/Openreach modem disconnects and reconnects the ethernet port which in turn would trigger a reconnect on the Asus router

the traffic shaping or bad routing would be a plusnet issue if a VPN is bypassing the traffic management QOS priority that they use (or its bypassing the route that your TS and other problem programs are having) i have this issue but constantly with BT and china ish websites like TP-Link at peak times (5pm on wards page does not work unless you use a VPN)

Standard User PhotoFiend
(regular) Tue 17-Nov-15 19:31:09
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: leexgx] [link to this post]
 
Thank you all three for your replies, though one in particular was rather brusk in it's manner, they are all incredibly helpful in working out what's going wrong!

I will certainly give it a go removing just the ethernet cable for a minute or so and see if that fixes the issue, that is one thing we haven't tried!

I'm using the Merlin firmware for the Asus, I initially moved to it from the Asus stock because of this issue, it's a shame that it hasn't made a difference. Now you have all given me an idea of what the problem could be I'm able to find other instances of it mentioned on the net.

True, the Teamspeak was certainly a separate issue, and I only highlighted it because it was a problem I called Plusnet about and they flat out denied it was anything to do with them, when in fact it was an issue happening either over or after their network.

So, ironically...the internet didn't drop yesterday, so I'm now almost eagerly waiting for it to drop so I can unplug that cable and see if that works!

I shall update after my next connection drop...


Thanks again for your continued help. smile
Standard User PhotoFiend
(regular) Tue 24-Nov-15 11:06:42
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Re: Connection drops - hardware or ISP related (or both?)


[re: PhotoFiend] [link to this post]
 
I thought I'd better update this thread in case anyone was wondering.

Very, very weirdly, after posting the thread, we have only had one connection drop - just the one, in days!

Before that, it was dropping multiple times a night, very bizarre!

Anyway, when it did drop, I disconnected the ethernet between the router and modem for around 30 seconds...it didn't make any difference, no connection came back.

I tried it again, for about a minute and this time it did come back. However, when it's left for a while it does come back of it's own accord anyway, so I'm still not sure what the problem could be.

Long and the short though, is that I've had a very stable connection for the last week, I don't get it, not complaining though!
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