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Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Mon 07-Dec-15 05:50:52
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Removing ADSL from the network?


[link to this post]
 
The bank masking on that BT does to allow FTTC & ADSL to coexist is having a really serious penalty on people with long lines from the cabinet.

It's far to say many people would see a gain of at about 20mbit down if the VDSL2 band plan could use the frequencies that ADSL2+ does. Alternatively the cabinet could try both ADSL2+ and VDSL2 and see what is best suited for the line?

Considering the pressure politicans are putting on BT right now to get more of the country up to the 10mbit/sec this seems like a good course.

OR could notify service providers say 6-12 months in advance that ADSL service to lines connected to FTTC cabinets would be seriously disrupted (not terminated perhaps?) if they don't move to FTTC products.

Anyone left on exchange fed ADSL would suddenly be overwhelmed by crosstalk and would have a very serious incentive to move.

Big problems that I can see are regulatory. But I think it would be worth it to get people on long lines from cabinets up from 5meg/sec to 20-30meg, until more ftth or gfast gets deployed. A stopgap measure for sure.
Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Dec-15 06:19:34
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
Personally I think that ADSL should be phased out.

They can and should just put all current ADSL lines onto VDSL2 and allow VDSL2 to use those "bands". Then they can limit those who where on ADSL to something like 2mb up and 10mb down and not charge extra for VDSL2.

Makes sense to me for the most part. But maybe not do this at some locations where there are customers on ADSL with very long lines where VDSL would just to reach.

TalkTalk 80Mb
Current Line Stats
Attainable Rate: DL: 93820 UL: 29851
Connection Speed: DL: 79999 Kbps UL: 19999 Kbps
SNR: DL: 14.9 UL: N/A
Attenuation: DL: 13.4 UL: 6.6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 07-Dec-15 07:35:41
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
Three years notice required for phasing out of product usually

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 07-Dec-15 08:40:33
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It's not within OR's power to make decisions like this. The ANFP is controlled by the NICC, which is industry wide and is essentially answerable to Ofcom.

I cannot imagine the LLU operators agreeing to this except, just possible, in those areas where they aren't present. Then there are little issues about capacity in cabinets and so on.There is a lot of sense in the proposal (aren't they doing this in New Zealand?), but it's probably only viable in some rural areas. I can't see it being accepted in urban areas.
Standard User Nightglow
(regular) Mon 07-Dec-15 08:57:10
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
A good idea where you can get fibre, but this idea isn't new, was mention back in March.

http://www.dupre.co.uk/2015/03/20/adsl-max-services-...
Standard User Ribble
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 07-Dec-15 09:03:33
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: Nightglow] [link to this post]
 
It would of course mean at keast 2 or 3 FTTC cabinets for each PCP, to cater for all the ADSL users forced over. Considering the issues OR has delivering capacity upgrades and new build at present, this would be a long term delivery at best.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 07-Dec-15 09:08:34
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: Ribble] [link to this post]
 
The number of cabinets would depend on the PCP in question. In a lot of rural locations a single cabinet would be plenty as the largest supports up to 288 line and that's plenty for many PCPs. Of course the cabinets that have been installed may not be sufficiently sized, but I've no idea what rules were adopted.

In any event, I only see this as (possibly) a rural area solution, not one for towns.

nb. the rules for the 10mbps USO have yet to be determined of course, but this may be an enabler. Not the removal of ADSL across the network, but possibly the removal from services via certain rural cabinets.

Edited by TheEulerID (Mon 07-Dec-15 09:10:46)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 07-Dec-15 09:34:37
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
Or they might just plump for the improvements that VDSLplus offers i.e. more bits per bin and better noise floor performance which means more speed for those further out. With luck a software upgrade, with worse luck a line card swap out or worst case a DSLAM replacement.

Of course until the decision is made on the future of Openreach everything is a might, and if independent we can expect the plans of Sky to dominate as they are calling for the total split so heavily i.e. they may want to focus away from xDSL totally and start a 10-15 year FTTH roll-out plan instead and walk away from any CityFibre plans.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User thomaswarne01
(member) Mon 07-Dec-15 09:40:51
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
Hi, ADSL Shouldn't be Phased out, we cannot get any sort of fibre due to the lines being bad, such as aluminium cable, the VDSL Signal over the lines is rubbish, sub 10Mb speeds and .3Mb upload speeds, whereas on ADSL I get 13-15Mb down and a constant 1Mb up,
I know BT should provide FTTP or replace lines etc...
but what about people who want FTTC (High Speed)
and an ADSL line as a backup,
remember ADSL comes from the exchange with large amounts of backup power, whereas FTTC does have backup power but does not last as long as ADSL would in a power outage,
And what if someone does this Crash/Outage,
Because remember the New cabinets are not always discreetly out of the way!
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 07-Dec-15 10:48:16
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Re: Removing ADSL from the network?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
There would be maximum benefit from combining both. There is no substitute for the low frequencies which have much greater range. I suspect that 10mbps could be pushed out to perhaps 4-5km from the cabinet if they were available at full power.
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