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Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 14:56:20
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Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[link to this post]
 
Hi all,

I wonder if anyone might be able to help out. I recently order fibre broadband with TalkTalk and connected it up yesterday (the go-live date). Currently speeds are almost identical to what they were before we got fibre, around 4.5-6.8 MBPs.

I have been on the line with technical support and have done my own digging and the confusing results are as follows:

- Plugged into the face plate of our master socket, the router is receiving at 7 MBPs, and a speed test on my laptop using the wireless connection is a shade below that, as explained above, something around 6.5 MBPs.

- When I plug the router into the test socket, suddenly the router is downloading at 25 MBPs, but my laptop speed tests still show a speed of about 6.5 MBPs.

This suggests separate, but confusingly interlinked problems.

1. Faulty internal wiring, because the router download speeds are more than 3x faster when connected to the test socket.

2. Faulty wireless, because even when plugged into the test socket and receiving proper fibre speeds, the wireless connection is barely 25% as fast.

The confusing thing is that when I plug the router into the faceplate again, the speed on my laptop stays about the same, even though the router's reported speed drops from 25 to 7 MBPs. Surely if there is an internal wiring problem shaving that much speed off the router's potential maximum, the wireless connection should also drop when the router speed drops?

Is it possible that there are two separate issues? That along with the wiring problem, the wireless is only semi-functional and is coincidentally capped at about 7 MBPs, which also happens to be just below the lower speed of the router (when plugged into the faceplate).

It just seems unlikely that the wireless would be faulty on a brand new router, and only slightly faulty, so that it works fine, but with steadily lower speeds...

I have looked at the master socket and there is no bellwire attached. There are two blue/white connectors at both 2 and 5.

Can anyone help?

Thanks very much in advance!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 29-Sep-16 15:14:36
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
I think the wireless is a separate problem, as it is completely separate from the WAN connection. Though of course, as you point out, it can't exceed the WAN speed.

The two pairs to the master faceplate suggests two extensions. What do you have on those extension, and is whatever is there filtered?

Are there only two extensions? In the house, whether used or not.

Please could you use the Address option of this checker and copy/paste the table of estimates.

(Just a small request for your next post. You appear to be talking megabits per second throughout, usually written as Mbps. MB is megabytes, and a megabyte is 8 megabits, so it gets confusing smile. Particularly as connection speeds are always Mbps and speed test results usually MBps).

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 15:25:34
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much for getting back to me. Point taken about Mbps, and about the problems probably being separate. I will be able to check the wired connection soon anyway, which should help clarify that issue.

Regarding extensions, there are 4 additional extensions around the house. There is also a fifth, which looks like a master socket, which I think was installed 15 years ago right at the top of the house, for broadband on a separate line, but I think it is defunct now. Can't get a dial tone from it, doesn't work for anything.

There is one additional phone plugged into one of the extensions, and a new microfilter from the fibre starting pack is being used there.

Shall I go and check for bellwire in all the extensions? And remove 1 line each from 2 and 5 at the master socket to determine which extensions are connected where?

Thanks again.


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 29-Sep-16 15:39:26
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
Don't remove any wires! Putting them back requires a special tool if you want to avoid risking wrecking those connectors.

The rest needs thinking about, and I have to go out for a while.

I assume no burglar alarm?

Don't forget that link to a checker smile.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 15:55:29
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
OK, I'm leaving the wires for the moment.

New information:

1. I found a fifth extension being used for the Sky box. At this extension, a BT splitter is being used for some reason, with two vacant slots on the front of it. As in, the cable from the Sky box goes into the bottom of the splitter, which is plugged in, and neither of the other two slots are being used.

I tried removing the splitter (leaving the socket empty and Sky unplugged), and something weird happens each time. First of all, the broadband connection drops for a minute. Then, when it comes back, I run a speed test and the ping and the download speed are the same, but the upload speed halves. from about 1.9 Mbps down to 1.0 Mbps. I have done this cycle twice and it was the same each time.

2. I checked another extension point and there are two wires in each of 2 and 5. I removed the bellwire.

3. We do have a burglar alarm, but it is on a separate line. I don't know if this could have anything to do with it.

4. I tried the checker you linked me to (tried it yesterday as found the same link elsewhere), and it gives the following response:

"There is no data available for this number. This could be either because it is not a BT line or it is a new BT number that has just been provided. Most new numbers will appear on the checker 24 hours after BT has installed the line."

However, I also tried the checker at this link: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broad...

And it tells me:

"Yes! You can get superfast BT Infinity
FIBRE BROADBAND
You could get
22Mb-29Mb
Estimated download speed range*
20Mb
Minimum guaranteed speed*"


Urgh. Thanks again... and no problem, I can wait for when you're back.
Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 16:03:41
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
Tried the address checker linked at the bottom of the same page (on the BT adsl checker) and this time it worked and gave me essentially the same results as that other page.


" Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 29.2 22.4 3.8 2.2 -- Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 20.7 10 3.4 1.1 -- Available --"
Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 17:43:44
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
Latest update:

- I realised the Sky input lacked a microflter, so I tried that with a microfilter, and without, and in the test socket and in the faceplate etcetc. No significant differences, but I noticed it wasn't connecting to broadband anyway (and why would it, since it's only plugged into a normal extension socket?), so I've just disconnected the Sky completely.

- I went around the house and disconnected all bellwire.

- In doing so, I understood the configuration of the extensions. It is a bit illogical, due to locations as well as the order in which the extensions have been added.

Essentially:

One of the two sets of wire at the main socket connects to the extension where the Sky was connected, which is the only extension on that loop.

The other four extensions are connected in series (the path loops along the house and back again in crazy fashion, but I have identified the last extension on the circuit (as it has only one set of wire - one wire each at 2 and 5), which is also the most recent extension, at the top of the house.

- With all of this done, I looked at the WAN speed again when plugged into the faceplate, and it had risen slightly from ~7 Mbps to exactly 8015 Kbps. Download speed on laptop was still about 6.8 Mbps and upload had stabilised back to about 1.9 Mbps.

- Now I have reconnected the router to the test socket. The WAN speed (from router specs) is back up to 25,104 Kbps, while speed tests on my computer are showing exactly the same results as before - download of 6.8 Mbps, upload 1.9 Kbps.


I am leaving it like this for a while to see if anything changes, but I assume the fact that the router is showing 25 Mbps means that it can't be anything to do with my ISP down-regulating me for frequent disconnections?

In which case, I'm stumped again. Bellwire gone, nothing else connected to extensions, Sky box unplugged, and still the WAN speed when router is connected to the faceplate is 30% of that when connected to test socket. The faceplate slots straight into the test socket, everything's disconnected and the router's microfiltered... what could possibly make such a massive difference...? Even if there's old wiring elsewhere in the house, why would it make a difference? Surely the signal doesn't need to go through any of that?

I'm going to lug a desktop down to the router to try a wired connection and check the wireless, but apart from that, I'm kind of inclined to disconnect all the extensions one by one (since we don't desperately need them, at least not at the moment) and see what happens... If it does come to that, and there is no internal network to speak of, and it still doesn't solve the problem, could it be a fault in the master socket itself?

For now, I'll wait and just try the wired test.

Thanks.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 29-Sep-16 17:55:28
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
Even with bell wire removed the effect of extension wiring can still be significant hence why fitting a VDSL faceplate to isolate the effect of the extensions is a common thing.

As for why speeds are not better, its not clear if you are referring to wireless or over Ethernet speeds.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User canary107
(newbie) Thu 29-Sep-16 18:09:26
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I know I've written a lot and for someone who isn't here it could be confusing.

I am indeed concerned about how the wireless is functioning, but I think it might be a separate issue from the issue concerning the internal wiring. I haven't yet been able to check a wired connection, but will do this evening hopefully, and that should cast some light on the wireless situation.

However, the difference between connecting the router to the faceplate and to the test socket is currently so great (WAN speed: 8 Mbps vs 25 Mbps) that I am most interested in resolving that.

I think fitting such a faceplate might be a good idea, since I have tidied up the network in every other way (easily) possible, short of disconnecting extensions. Do you know if I can fit that kind of faceplate myself (technically, legally, etc....)?

Thanks for your help.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 29-Sep-16 18:30:22
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Re: Mysterious problem with broadband / internal wiring...


[re: canary107] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by canary107:
I think fitting such a faceplate might be a good idea, since I have tidied up the network in every other way (easily) possible, short of disconnecting extensions. Do you know if I can fit that kind of faceplate myself (technically, legally, etc....)?
Yes you can. It's designed so you can.

You want a Mk3 Openreach VDSL interstitial filter plate. (Ignore the crazy price on the first one, something badly wrong there). The second one at £12.97 is the one.

You can see in the first pic how it fits, though it doesn't show your wires. Dead simple. Just remove the faceplate as before, with its wires still attached, plug the new Mk3 filter into the test socket, and put the faceplate on the front of the result. There are gaps for your wires to go through.

The Mk3 should come with longer screws to go through the combination. If there are two types of screw, use the ones like you already have.

Then you don't need dangly filters anywhere. But you can't plug your router in to any extension socket.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 29-Sep-16 18:31:42)

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