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Standard User Westyfield2
(newbie) Tue 15-Nov-16 13:22:31
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FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[link to this post]
 
So I’m trying to get my head around the actual facts.

FTTP-on-Demand (FTTPoD) was launched in 2013ish, on a limited number of exchanges. In 2014 it had a price jump (link). In 2015 it had a stop sell. Presumably it was because high costs meant a low uptake, and also OpenReach were meant to be concentrating on the mainstream not the niche (link).

In April 2016 it was launched again (link)

In September 2016 Spectrum internet announced that they would be selling the OpenReach FTTPoD product (link).

In October 2016 OpenReach announced a price cut, although the wording actually sounds like the first 10 orders only (link).

So my questions are:

Since the April 2016 relaunch, is FTTPoD now available on any exchange that does FTTC? (Remembering of course that the install is actually from your nearest NGA Aggregation Node rather than cabinet). Or is FTTPoD still only on a subset of exchanges?

Other than Spectrum internet, what communications providers offer FTTPoD? Spectrum only do FTTPoD in exchanges that they’ve got LLU PoP, which is basically Wales only.

The install cost is going to be the same regardless of communications provider. Can a customer get an install quote from OpenReach without going through a communications provider?

The ongoing cost from OpenReach to the communications provider is higher than native FTTP. Since the customer has already paid for the install, why is the ongoing cost for FTTPoD different to native FTTP?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 15-Nov-16 13:47:56
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Westyfield2:
The install cost is going to be the same regardless of communications provider.
That isn't necessarily the case. CPs don't work on purely the cost to them. For instance on lower cost services some absorb the install charges but load the contract length. Others charge install cost plus a profit margin and do monthly contracts. Others charge more for thing like line rental, though these days if you have to have it from them that is masked.
Can a customer get an install quote from OpenReach without going through a communications provider?
No.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 15-Nov-16 13:52:00
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
FTTPoD still only on a subset of exchanges?

Yes, the checkers still show some cabinets that don't have FoD option.

Spectrum is the go to, and others have found Ethernet services at comparable pricing in England.

No quote has to come via provider, to reduce the walter mitty dream effect and avoid large numbers of people creating the custom quotes.

On final cost, because apparently the install cost does not fully recover the install costs, and as area was considered not favourable for commercial FTTP the belief that very few others will opt for the FoD product. After 3 years the costs do revert to normal GEA-FTTP and you can opt for the various speed options too at that point.

If in a sub superfast area, you might find a better avenue would be community fibre options ie. http://www.communityfibre.bt.com/ especially if a couple of businesses are happy to contribute more than their fair share to subsidise smaller amounts from householders. Delivery via that route rather than FoD for an individual also means standard GEA-FTTP pricing would apply, unless you are someone with a drive a few 100 metre long.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


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Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 15-Nov-16 15:24:10
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Westyfield2:
In 2015 it had a stop sell. Presumably it was because high costs meant a low uptake, and also OpenReach were meant to be concentrating on the mainstream not the niche (link).


Actually, no. Demand was too high - BT couldn't cope.

It is clear to me that BT intended FTTPoD as part of their niche business offerings, not as a mainstream service. That put the work into the list of tasks allocated to their niche/business staff.

In putting the stop in place (at BT Wholesale), the inference was that BT Openreach was finding installation was taking much longer than expected, making it hard to achieve the FTTPoD installation work within the deadlines (something beyond 45 days, IIRC); this had a consequential impact on fulfilling the deadlines for "normal" (but still business/niche) ethernet products.

The choice to stop selling was said to allow the ethernet product delivery times to recover. BT's research side then used the time to come up with an alternative deployment method.

In reply to a post by Westyfield2:
In April 2016 it was launched again (link)


It has been a strange launch, with very limited availability.

BT Research has come up with newer deployment method, both for native FTTP, and FTTPoD, but these methods don't seem to have been released into normal usage yet. These changes seem to get grouped alongside G.Fast under a banner of "NGA2".

The real driver for re-launch was probably that BT made some commitments with the "Superfast Cymru" group, as part of the BDUK subsidy programme, to make a certain amount of FTTP available in Wales. It appears that this commitment is being honoured through the FTTPoD product line.

It appears that BT's decision to reactivate FTTPoD, and make it more available, is mostly limited to exchanges in Wales, and Spectrum Internet's involvement is likewise limited.

The deployment method seems to remain as before, alongside (likely) slow installation times and high costs.

I suspect (with no evidence) that FTTPoD might become more widespread outside Wales as "NGA2" becomes more widespread - so linking it with the rollout of G.Fast. The existence of G.Fast products might then make FTTPoD even more niche than before (so BT can handle the lower number of orders). The newer deployment method might make it cheaper.
Standard User Westyfield2
(newbie) Tue 15-Nov-16 17:03:45
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Yes, the checkers still show some cabinets that don't have FoD option.

Is it all FTTC exchanges but only some cabinets on them?
Or only some exchanges at all?
Standard User cymru123
(regular) Tue 15-Nov-16 17:33:18
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
I believe it's some exchanges that are specifically stated to also have FTTPoD as available to properties on FTTC DSLAM cabinets on that exchange once they are live.
Standard User Westyfield2
(newbie) Tue 15-Nov-16 19:34:34
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: cymru123] [link to this post]
 
Just did a few tests on the checker.
All below were using lines on FTTC cabinets on FTTC exchanges, and for some I tried multiple lines on the exchange.
Combe Down (Bath) - No
Kingsmead (Bath) - No
Midsomer Norton RMCUX - No
Swindon - No
Bristol North - Yes

Bristol North was one of the exchanges listed here so I would presume it's just the same list of exchanges as 2014, plus now "all exchanges in wales".
Standard User Nightglow
(member) Tue 15-Nov-16 20:05:25
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Westyfield2:
Just did a few tests on the checker.
All below were using lines on FTTC cabinets on FTTC exchanges, and for some I tried multiple lines on the exchange.
Combe Down (Bath) - No
Kingsmead (Bath) - No
Midsomer Norton RMCUX - No
Swindon - No
Bristol North - Yes

Bristol North was one of the exchanges listed here so I would presume it's just the same list of exchanges as 2014, plus now "all exchanges in wales".


Kingsmead (Bath) wish they enable this exchange as it's my exchange.

Edited by Nightglow (Tue 15-Nov-16 20:06:08)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Tue 15-Nov-16 21:25:42
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
I would presume it's just the same list of exchanges as 2014, plus now "all exchanges in wales".
ITthe list you linked to is the exchanges added in Dec 2013-Mar 2014 rather than all of the exchanges at that time. For example Vauxhall (WRVUAX) does not appear on the list yet my new AIO cab (WRVAUX54) shows FTTPoD as being available. Not that I can see anyone forking out for FTTPoD for some time having just paid for the AIO cab.
Standard User davidnye
(newbie) Fri 18-Nov-16 11:38:20
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Re: FTTP-on-Demand FTTPoD Questions


[re: Westyfield2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Westyfield2:
I would presume it's just the same list of exchanges as 2014, plus now all exchanges in wales.

No; in our area (Surrey) cabinets or exchanges which were FTTC enabled as part of the BDUK contract DO have FTTPoD according to the checker but earlier "commercial" ones do NOT. I have not attempted to check whether this applies at cabinet or exchange level or whether this is true across Surrey, but it is certainly the case for the numbers I have checked in this rural area of about 10 cabinets on 4 exchanges.

Of course, no-one around here can actually get a quote for FTTPoD as far as I can determine.

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