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Standard User kinny999
(newbie) Fri 30-Dec-16 02:07:50
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3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[link to this post]
 
Morning all, i happened across my original (and only other) thread on here while checking DSL checker again and searching to see what VDSL multicast was. I thought i'd stick another thread up and describe what seems to be an all too familiar theme and see if anyone can offer and sage advice or failing that sympathy wink

We've now been in our current address for going on 4, 1/2 years and that illusive fibre availability date has always managed to stay a little bit ahead of us.

The current "due" date is 31 March 2017 for VDSL and more worrying the old fibre estimates bit has gone entirely.

Could any kind soul perhaps explain what VDSL is in layman's terms and if different, if it has any bearing on us ever actually being able to get fibre to our home?

I'll C&P the blurb i get on DSL checker if that may give ny extra information...apologies as the formatting will no doubt be stuffed.

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number *********** on Exchange LYTHAM is served by Cabinet 7
ADSL Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date
Left in Jumper

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 5 -- 3 to 7.5 Available -- -- -- --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 5 Up to 1 3 to 7.5 Available -- -- -- --
ADSL Max Up to 4 -- 2.5 to 7 Available -- -- -- --
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- -- -- --
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- -- -- --
Other Offerings
Availability Date

VDSL Multicast -- -- -- 31-Mar-17 -- -- -- --
ADSL Multicast -- -- -- Available -- -- -- --
VDSL FTTC and SOGEA is currently not available on this cabinet due to following reasons:- Cabinet to be enabled between Apr-16 and Mar-17. Date to be confirmed once the survey is complete..

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

This line is on a Market B Exchange.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-Oct-2012; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Jun-2014.

If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact the Broadband supplier they want to take service from to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Where planned or expected availability dates are shown, these may be liable to change.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number, NAD, UPRN or Access Line ID (ALID) check.
Note:

Thank you for your interest.

Edited by kinny999 (Fri 30-Dec-16 02:08:50)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 30-Dec-16 08:10:30
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
I am assuming you already know what VDSL itself is.

VDSL multicast - allows video streaming over the network to be done more efficiently. If you were to watch a live broadcast over VDSL using it would normally send the whole broadcast down every line to every individual - so on the backhaul parts of the network you could have hundreds of streams of the same programme using lots of bandwidth. Multicast enables you to send a single stream down the shared parts of the network which gets split out as it moves closer to the edge - much more efficient for a broadcast medium.

BT will use it for their BT TV platform which has a number of "live" channels delivered via the VDSL connection.
Standard User kinny999
(newbie) Fri 30-Dec-16 08:16:25
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I was under the impression it meant TV services such as BT and virgin but your reply has clarified that for me so thanks.

I'm assuming again here but I guess it has no bearing on actual fibre broadband in this case so I can't read anything into it either way?


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 30-Dec-16 08:20:21
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
The multicast bit is entirely incidental. The VDSL itself is the same no matter what. Multicast is just some additional networking kit to enable the video distribution in BTs network - in almost all ways it doesn't matter to the end user at all.

I am going to assume your install is probably in the commercial part of the BT rollout. I'm also going to guess that the delay has largely been caused by the BDUK project as BT have diverted most of their resources to that over the last few years and so their own commercial project largely took a back seat. The BDUK project to some extent has been winding down but that may change again with the government announcing more funding/clawback - but many don't believe BT shouldn't get that money and if they don't then BT may have more resources to concentrate back on the commercial areas of their network.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 30-Dec-16 09:39:44
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
No sign that cab 7 was commercial or ever in the Lancashire BDUK project plans.

There are signs that Virgin Media are on the way, as area is flagged as a future development in their Project Lightning plans.

Some cabinets were done under the initial roll-out of the BDUK project but the majority under the commercial roll-out.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 30-Dec-16 10:59:27
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
Did it give any figures for the VDSL speed estimates when those lines were present? I notice in your first thread you didn't post them.

I note that in that first post you say you get 2Mbps/0.5Mbps. Yet the estimates you have just posted suggest you should probably get quite a bit more than that. Perhaps as much as 4Mbps or even more. Not like fibre, but maybe a significantly better experience.

Are you able to get line stats from your router? That's connection speed, attenuation and noise margin? If you can, please post them. Again, don't worry about the formatting. Please can you confirm that you aren't on an old 2Mbps Fixed Rate connection as per the final estimate line? It looks a bit as if you may be. Which ISP are you with?

Also have a browse of the Ring/Bell wire, high margin, and miscellaneous nasties pages linked to on this page. The ring wire alone can make a difference of well over 1Mbps and sometimes as much as 2Mbps.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User kinny999
(newbie) Sat 31-Dec-16 00:34:24
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
@Ian , Thanks for that, i appreciate the clarification.

@MrSaffron I'm only going off DSLchecker and brief and vague information from Openreach as to their plans. It did initially give a availability date for fibre ll the way back in 2013 before jumping again and again before the most recent update 1 year ago today which later removed the fibre bit entirely. I get the impression that the area around our cabinet is borderline profitable and thus was a last one to be done or maybe not profitable enough to warrant the work? (all assumption though, mostly founded on cynicism)

@Roberto The VDSL bit only appeared recently, some time in the last 6 months so i'm not sure about that one sorry. The line estimates with different suppliers over the years have all been 3.5 to 5m down and 1-2 up but i think the copper wire on our road is particularly bad if the open reach techies i've seen and asked are to be believed. I'm posting from work so can't get router stats for you right now, if you want to leave instruction i'll crack on when im at home this week.
We do get close to 5mb down occasionally, usually when im up late into the night so it's definitely not restricted to 2mb in any way. I'm currently with Plusnet for BB and phone.


Cheers for the replies folks.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 31-Dec-16 00:44:49
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
Many of us can help you get the line stats. Need to know what router you have.

I was meaning VDSL estimates when those lines were showing, not the ADSLx ones ISPs will be giving you at the moment.

Plusnet is once again in chaos with throughput so not surprising you aren't getting high throughput right now. See most of the current threads in the Plusnet forum here.

It's down to a mess with the change of backhaul system. They never seem to get any big change to go through smoothly. I left sixteen months ago because I could see trouble coming.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Dec-16 19:01:57
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Re: 3 years later, still waiting on Fibre


[re: kinny999] [link to this post]
 
These show an interesting combination...

In reply to a post by kinny999:
@MrSaffron I'm only going off DSLchecker and brief and vague information from Openreach as to their plans. It did initially give a availability date for fibre ll the way back in 2013 before jumping again and again before the most recent update 1 year ago today which later removed the fibre bit entirely. I get the impression that the area around our cabinet is borderline profitable and thus was a last one to be done or maybe not profitable enough to warrant the work? (all assumption though, mostly founded on cynicism)

@Roberto The VDSL bit only appeared recently, some time in the last 6 months so i'm not sure about that one sorry.


When you say "availability date for fibre", what kind of fibre did it show? Just "Fibre"? FTTC or FTTP?

Let me go back to one of your earlier questions...

In reply to a post by kinny999:
Could any kind soul perhaps explain what VDSL is in layman's terms and if different, if it has any bearing on us ever actually being able to get fibre to our home?


What is sold by BT and VM as "fibre broadband" is not often fibre to the home (or FTTP, fibre to the premises). In most cases, it is a hybrid fibre-copper solution, where fibre covers a good chunk of the distance, but the final portion is still copper (either coax for VM or twisted pair for BT).

In BT's case, the FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) solution puts a new green cabinet near the old PCP wiring cabinet. This new cabinet contains a DSLAM which runs VDSL2 over the remaining copper to the home (at speeds of 80Mbps if you are within 300m of the cabinet, 25Mbps if you are within 1-1.2km).

So... if BT were going to upgrade your cabinet 7 with an FTTC solution, they would put a DSLAM within 50-100m of the old one, and supply "fibre broadband" with VDSL2. The DSL-checker would give estimates for VDSL/FTTC products.

When that happens, the DSL-checker output also ends up indicating "VDSL multicast" as available.

The DSL-checker can also end up with the odd combination where it doesn't show any FTTC/VDSL speed estimates, but it does show VDSL multicast availability. When this happens, it tends to mean that the line is too long (perhaps 2km or more) to be able to sustain a "fibre broadband" service.

There are also cases where BT's database is incorrect, so believes that a line is too long even when that is not the case. That normally requires Openreach to update their database as a request from the ISP.

From codelook, It seems that cabinet 26 (part way down Dock Rd?) is now being upgraded commercially, perhaps because a lot of house-building appears to have happened. Cab 7 (at the start of Dock Rd) is still listed as being out of the programme, but there is certainly overlap in their areas.
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