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Standard User Spetznaz
(experienced) Mon 02-Jan-17 00:51:04
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Peak time congestion issue


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Hi,

I've been using Infinity through BT retail for just under a year having finally being able to access FTTC last January, until recentely it seemed fine but in the last month or so there have been some significant slow downs which seem to happen during the evening mainly.

I have tried all the obvious stuff and ruled out any issues within the house, done the livechat with BT 'help' who claim to have tested the line at their end and got 49Mbit when I was getting 7-9Mbit through speedtest.net and speedtest.btwholesale.com at the same time.

Conveniently their own speedtest which you can run when logged into your BT account for fault finding diagnosis always reports a problem saying it didn't complete then at the end of the other pointless bits they test says your 'speed appears normal' (how very convenient!).

Just looking for advice on what best to do next if anyone has had similar issues?, I've been through this before with ADSL which was pretty much exactly the same with it being terrible 7-11PM but fine after midnight in the last 2 years or so of using it, I got nowhere as they always denied the issue, so I'm hoping I am not going to find the same here, why do BT seem to plan so badly for bandwidh provision??.

Maybe I'm best to just cancel and try another ISP?, I'm not sure if my contract is 12 or 18 Months but given that the speed I'm getting is often well below their own minimum threshold I do not think it right that they can hold me to contract in any case!.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Jan-17 09:54:29
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
The speed thresholds usually apply to the connection speed, and speed to the ISP network, with no guarantees beyond there, so you need to establish first that your sync speed is stable

While speedtest.btwholesale.com is often favoured by providers it is not the ideal speed tester and speedtest.net can sometimes pick the odd bad host to test against. If you use http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest this does two download tests with the first being more congestion sensitive and the routing is repeatable and well understood.

NOTE: Christmas and New Year are always expected to be slow due to everyone being online, so it may clear up on its own once the schools go back. The newspapers ran 'Internet meltdown' stories in their usual exaggeration stylee

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Spetznaz
(experienced) Mon 02-Jan-17 12:09:03
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Thanks for the reply, I will try it again tonight, though pretty sure it will be a lot lower, I'm on the 55Mbit package (52?).

Stats below from OR modem, quite scary as last time I logged in maybe 9-10 months ago my attainable rate was near 80Mbit!, looks like a lot of crosstalk?, meaning lots of new subscribers = contention?, makes sense as ADSL here was woeful but surely they should have known this would happen?.

I guess this is where they got the 49Mbit from as the sync speed not actual throughput then?, seems a bit silly but then this allows them to deny any problem so no suprise there.

Line Status

Downstream Upstream
Attainable rate (kbit/s) 47972 18375
SNR margin (dB) 18 0
Line attenuation (dB) 12.8 7.4
Output power (dBmV) 12.8 7.4

Statistics


Path 0

Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Line rate (kbit/s) 49478 9999 0 0
CRC errors 248 127 18 0
FEC errors 0 0 1 0
HEC errors 122 4294967290 32 0


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 02-Jan-17 12:37:40
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
Just as a side issue, you have posted there the stats from the GUI of the Openreach modem, where the attenuation and power figures are duplicated. IIRC it is the attenuation that is wrong.

You need to access the stats through telnet in a command window, if you know how to do that. Once logged into the modem the commands are:-

sh
xdslcmd info --stats


You can then copy and paste those to here, and we see the correct values plus several other useful figures.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Jan-17 12:46:12
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
49478 Sync speed, and maximum throughput will be ~96% of this, so 47498

The speed test shows something is oddly wrong, as the tbb single thread speed should not be that low compared to the multiple thread test. Some PlusNet users are reporting a similar problem, that then does go away or is fixed by restarting the modem. Is it a Home Hub 5a that you have?

The speed of the yellow line in the first 2 to 3 seconds looks to be the 45 Mbps and would expect a line to be able to hold that for the 8 seconds of the test, so that it drops suggests congested area maybe.

Cross-talk has vectoring to mitigate it, but does not always work well and is not fully deployed on VDSL2.

Contention - generally a lot better on VDSL2 services than ADSL2+ ones, but until we all are happy paying much higher prices the basic rule of consumer broadband that data from 1998 that it is a shared medium that WILL slow down when everyone is doing stuff still applies.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Jan-17 15:12:31
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
NOTE: Christmas and New Year are always expected to be slow due to everyone being online, so it may clear up on its own once the schools go back. The newspapers ran 'Internet meltdown' stories in their usual exaggeration stylee

I, say.
Our Infinity 4 speed dropped halfway into the double figures over Christmas and the new year, it got bad to a point I was getting packet loss, or to a point the packets were delayed that long they was rejected.

BT says its not an issue until the speed drops below 30Mbps no matter what Infinity Package your on, which I think is wrong, I think it did that at some point new years due to all the packet loss etc.

Its still not back to normal, but is in the mid 3 digits (shown here) so not all bad atm.

But compared to what I normally get, i.e. speed result in my sig, it still seams people are either streaming or downloading stuff hence the congestion.

Paul

BTBroadband - Infinity 4 - 310Mbps (down), 31Mbps (up)
TBB Speedtest
Standard User Spetznaz
(experienced) Mon 02-Jan-17 17:52:05
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 18382 Kbps, Downstream rate = 47972 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49478 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.0 11.8
Attn(dB): 18.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.8 7.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 58
B: 235 236
M: 1 1
T: 0 23
R: 12 16
S: 0.1518 0.7543
L: 13070 2694
D: 8 1
I: 248 127
N: 248 254
Q: 8 0
V: 1 0
RxQueue: 39 0
TxQueue: 13 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 13 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 328208
OHFErr: 1 11
RS: 1836171776 1604442
RSCorr: 3846135 66
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 4355175 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 34840902 0
RSCorr: 14 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 140476951 0
rtx_c: 37618 0
rtx_uc: 1 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 625 0
minEFTR: 49323 0
errFreeBits: 52754556 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2360098919 0
Data Cells: 92646638 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 1 10
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
AS: 69955

Bearer 0
INP: 46.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.70
OR: 0.01 58.79
AgR: 49556.74 10057.90

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01

Bitswap: 36081/36081 0/0

Total time = 19 hours 26 min 22 sec
FEC: 3846135 66
CRC: 1 11
ES: 1 10
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 22 sec
FEC: 119208 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 26256 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 26 min 22 sec
FEC: 3846135 66
CRC: 1 11
ES: 1 10
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 19 hours 25 min 55 sec
FEC: 3846135 66
CRC: 1 11
ES: 1 10
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#
Standard User Spetznaz
(experienced) Mon 02-Jan-17 18:01:31
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Re: Peak time congestion issue *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Spetznaz
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 02-Jan-17 18:12:23
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
Great - note the differences in the key figures as well. My memory was imperfect, as importantly the downstream SNR margin is the standard 6dB not the 18dB in the GUI version.

In the GUI, as well as the power figures being duplicated into the attenuation, the attenuation is moved into the SNR margin line.

There seem to be two things going on.

It looks as if your 80Mbps attainable of a year ago would be as one of the first users on the FTTC cabinet, and cross-talk as others have connected has seriously affected that. Given the attenuation of 18dB your current figures are poor but not disastrous. Unless you have already optimised your house (phone) wiring that could be the cause. Maybe even Christmas Lights on houses and Christmas trees, yours and neighbours.

Slow-downs in throughput at the ISP level, as MrSaffron says, could very well be down to heavy usage at this time of year, particularly with children off school and a lot of sport. At home similar could apply if you are connecting wirelessly to your router, or of course if anyone is using the connection at the time you test. The wireless connection itself could also be being affected by fancy lights and such.

Other info in the stats shows you on the basic level of G.INP, replacing earlier interleaving you will have had. Four million FECs in 20 hours looks a bit high to me.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 02-Jan-17 18:22:44
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Re: Peak time congestion issue


[re: Spetznaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Spetznaz:
I am paying over £50 a month and would probably pay more for a decent service but it seems all your offered from BT is rubbish so you might as well pay £4 a month for Plusnet and be done with it ....
You aren't comparing like with like there.

On pricing I assume the £4 is a "first so many months" deal, and even then is amazing if it includes line rental. I see nothing on this page under £25pm for FTTC and that is an 18-month minimum term. The only £4 I see is for a call plan to go with it.

On the product itself, it is the Openreach 40/2 product, not the 55/10 you are on now. If upstream speed matters, then that is significant. You would also lose another 10Mbps downstream connection speed.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/16365Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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