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Standard User godsell4
(member) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:03:10
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Downstream Handback Threshold


[link to this post]
 
Is the column on the output of dslchecker.bt.com called "Downstream Handback Threshold" a new thing and what is it?

Have googled and searched this forum without finding an answer.

PlusNet Unlimited Fibre 3Mb to 5Mb
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:20:17
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
Yes, it is new. As to what?


In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

Handback to who? Is it a level at which contracts can be exited or handed to OR for investigation? Lots of ideas but nothing firm ...


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit

Edited by MHC (Sun 15-Jan-17 12:23:11)

Standard User gromit69
(committed) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:43:28
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I noticed that today. I assumed that it was the threshold that OR will switch back to ADSL. Or it could be accept-it-as-a-fault threshold as you suggested...


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Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:46:17
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
T2R = Trouble to resolve (repair)
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:51:13
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: gromit69] [link to this post]
 
I'm guessing the same.

In the past, we've been told that the A and B ranges actually represent the 80th and 20th percentiles - so 20% of lines are above the top of the range, and 20% are below the bottom.

Equally, Openreach say they will accept fault reports based on low speed alone (ie a line test shows "no fault") when the speed is below the 10th percentile.

My guess us that the handback threshold is going to be the 10th percentile.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jan-17 12:58:01
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Incidentally, my line has an A range of 79-80 with handback of 74, and a B range of 63-80 with a handback of 39.8.

I wonder if, for relatively short lines that ought to easy get around 80Mbps, the handback is deliberately set to something that a 40Mbps package can achieve. Or if that really is the tenth percentile.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 15-Jan-17 13:02:28
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: gromit69] [link to this post]
 
Certainly not revert to ADSL - on one line 57.9 / 32 Mbps and another 71.9 / 44 On eth ones I have looked at, at the higher speeds the A range is to one DP and the B no DPs. There is one slow line I know where it is 0.4 / 0.3


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jan-17 13:07:55
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Handback to who? Is it a level at which contracts can be exited or handed to OR for investigation? Lots of ideas but nothing firm ...


In the past, the BT Wholesale FTTC Handbook documented a "90 day rule":
90 day rule

This deals with performance issues relating to a service that has been in service for less than 90 days and cannot be adequately fixed by Openreach.

The service must have been investigated by Openreach for under-performance since its Service Activation date (i.e. the line will not synchronise at a speed above the 10th Percentile point of sale predicted rate, (please see section 16.2), or the line rate has dropped by more than 25% over a 14 day continuous period).


Section 16.2 details the values seen in the DSL checker. As an old document, the one I have only mentions the A and B ranges, not the handback. However, it goes on to say:
10th Percentile.

When ordering GEA-FTTC, you may cancel within 90 calendar days of installation if the line speed degrades to the point of being significantly lower than the speed estimate provided at the point of sale and, having raised a request for investigation, we are unable to resolve the issue.

In this case, you can request reimbursement for the connection, rental and cease charges and you won’t have to pay any early termination charges. We will not reimburse any event charges you may have incurred as part of the provision or investigation process. This is the 90 day rule as in section 4.

We define “significantly lower” as not meeting the 10th percentile speed for lines with the same line characteristics (dB loss when calculated at 300kHz) when the line is operating on the Dynamic Line Management (DLM) “Speed” policy. The 10th percentile speeds for each line are published on the Range of Values file on the BT Wholesale.com website.


It would make sense if BT reported this 10th percentile figure in the checker, rather than in a private part of the BTW website.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 15-Jan-17 13:10:31
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Have sent an enquiry to the press office, so may know in the week.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Sun 15-Jan-17 13:25:37
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Re: Downstream Handback Threshold


[re: godsell4] [link to this post]
 
It's been a around a while but was increased to 12 months by BT Wholesale (for those services) in around May 2016 under the notification of "Extending the Handback period for an underperforming WBC FTTC line".

It is 10% from the lower estimate of the line. The problem here is that the estimate given when the customer starts service and what can be seen later on the public checker that the BTW bulletin referenced can change. It used to be 20% for those services too. "We are increasing the period that you can claim the free handback from 90 days to 12 months. And moving the threshold from 20th percentile to 10th percentile."

Some providers will store the original data which can be used and disputed against if required but it is possible some don't.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Sheffield Speedtest.net Host

Edited by uno (Sun 15-Jan-17 13:29:25)

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