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Standard User Archetype486
(newbie) Wed 22-Feb-17 09:49:26
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Line Banding


[link to this post]
 
This may be of interest to some:

Back on 16/12/16 I got my line banded to 59998 downstream, 20000 upstreem then 26/12/16 60000, 20000. This stayed the same, sometimes going 60000, 19997 or very close to 20000 upstream. I have had a SNRM 6.8db and 6.2db respectfully. This got banded due to faltly face plate that I changed but also changed my modem from HG612 to Zyxel VMG8924-B10A. I am using these in bridge mode with a pFSense box as my router.

I moved from BT to iDNET on 16/02/17 and originally synced at the exact same stats. I was expecting this as they use BTW. A few hours later the DLM kicked in at removed G.INP and applied an interleave level of 886. This obviously caused my sync and attainable speed to drop and fluctuate slightly with no round numbers, I assumed that a DLM reset had occurred.

DLM action on 20/02/16 removed the interleaving an I was on fast path for both upstream and downstream with a slight increase in sync speed.

This morning the DLM applied G.INP on my line and my line is back to 60000, 20000 with the same 6.8db and 6.2db.

I know there is not much room for improvement in my sync speed with this margin. It is more for information as I though it looked like a DLM reset has been done but I assume it was not a full reset.

MyDSLStats name is Archetype.
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Wed 22-Feb-17 14:47:43
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Re: Line Banding


[re: Archetype486] [link to this post]
 
That's kinda standard. Product changes/ISP/DLM profile changes often leave banding in place. Seems it's not quite a full DLM reset. Only an engineer/dcoe manually performed DLM reset guarantees removal of stuck banding.
Standard User Archetype486
(newbie) Wed 22-Feb-17 17:04:51
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Re: Line Banding


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Yeah I didn't think it would have had a DLM reset changing providers but when it removed G.INP I was hopping.

Not to worry. I know I haven't got the worst banding and I still have a stable line. Was hopping to get one of the new profiles though as I ended up on the trial last year and it was stable.


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Standard User arronlowley
(regular) Wed 22-Feb-17 23:08:18
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Re: Line Banding


[re: Archetype486] [link to this post]
 
what i noticed with g.inp is, it took a few days to actually connect properly, my modem was showing g.inp as active, but with an interleave depth of 0 0, on bt it was 3 0.

after a few days i checked and it had gone to 3 0, but didnt increase my latency at all, my line is rock solid now.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 22-Feb-17 23:51:55
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Re: Line Banding


[re: arronlowley] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by arronlowley:
what i noticed with g.inp is, it took a few days to actually connect properly, my modem was showing g.inp as active, but with an interleave depth of 0 0, on bt it was 3 0.

after a few days i checked and it had gone to 3 0, but didnt increase my latency at all, my line is rock solid now.
That's the Bearer 1 depths. The Bearer 0, which is your normal one will probably have 4, 8 or 16 down and 1 up.

Latency addition is on the "delay" line, . On normal interleaving is usually 8ms but if things are bad it can be higher. G.INP normally sets it back to zero. Your bearer 1 might have a delay of 3ms, like mine below.

Also, in this thread, BQM did not get rid of itself. It simply changed a setting or two. Like hugely reducing your interleaving and setting "delay" to zero when it re-activated G.INP.

Incidentally, the DLM itself is identical on BT and Sky, as it is the Openreach one run and applied by Openreach. It is that DLM that controls whether or not you go onto G.INP from interleaving, if your line won't sustain Fast Path. But the CPs do have a choice of three stability settings for it. BT choose speed. Sky, from that thread, apparently go for the next one down. However BT Wholesale feed the sync speed reported by Openreach into their IP Profile setting system and apply that on top.

Without G.INP IP Profile is ~ 0.9679 x sync. With G.INP it is ~0.9669 x sync. On Sky they don't have a published equivalent but probably do limit throughput to a fraction below sync as well.

Back in December I ditched both my HG612s, which I had right from the first on FTTC. I think that was in 2011. On G.INP they both sync'ed around 57Mbps. I switched to a Billion 8800NL R2 and the result is over 65Mbps. I recommend! smile

xdslctl info --show
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 14175 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65712 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14193 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65258 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.0 6.0
Attn(dB): 19.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.7 7.4

VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 62
R: 10 16
S: 0.1191 0.5333
L: 17067 3810
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 51 0
TxQueue: 17 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 17 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0

Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 1556138
OHFErr: 4 29
RS: 4191130136 4260855
RSCorr: 947506 295
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 23776871 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 237768093 0
RSCorr: 1 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 131999896 0
rtx_c: 19309 0
rtx_uc: 74448 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 195 0
minEFTR: 65265 0
errFreeBits: 491931302 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 683962231 0
Data Cells: 78064634 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 94 45
SES: 21 0
UAS: 103 82
AS: 381962

Bearer 0
INP: 47.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.29
OR: 0.01 30.84
AgR: 65325.10 14224.43

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 263853/279625 2541/2556


Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Archetype486
(newbie) Thu 23-Feb-17 02:31:16
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Re: Line Banding


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
@RobertoS

I am correct and thinking you haad banding on your line for a while? Did you get the DLM reset by an engineer or did it remove it it's self?

If it got removed by it's self do you think the change in modems helped?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Back in December I ditched both my HG612s, which I had right from the first on FTTC. I think that was in 2011. On G.INP they both sync'ed around 57Mbps. I switched to a Billion 8800NL R2 and the result is over 65Mbps. I recommend! smile

Edited by Archetype486 (Thu 23-Feb-17 02:31:49)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 23-Feb-17 08:48:20
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Re: Line Banding


[re: Archetype486] [link to this post]
 
Engineer. I gave it two months on the Billion with negligible error rates. We have seen other people with it automatically removed at that sort of time, and even IIRC one at about three months, but in my case it was quite ridiculous from the stats. I got fed up and hit lucky with getting it reset.

I tried several different modems during the banding, which started out of the blue while all I had was HG612s. On a Huawei cabinet I don't recommend the ZyXel VM1312-10A or the Draytek Vigor 130. But while on banding, with G.INP and the typical very low interleaving level, both of them and this Billion were reporting around 67Mbps Attainable where both HG612s only reported in the high 57Mbps region.

At the point I installed the Billion my banding was at 45Mbps but jumped back up to 55Mbps after three days. Before I started messing with the other kit, primarily trying to get dual band IPv6/IPv4 working but also wondering if modem hardware and firmware had advanced since the HG612 with SP08 was frozen, it had been at 60,000Kbps.

The removal of banding brought back immediate interleaving of 1099/1 and sync of well over 59Mbps and Attainable above 67,500Kbps. Three days later, surprisingly during the day rather than overnight, G.INP kicked back in as expected with the syncs in my sig and attainable varying between a fraction below actual and about 900Kbps above. I'm going to leave well alone now!!!

HappyBunny on MyDSLWebStats. I don't have it monitoring 24/7 but it was on occasionally on for a few days before last night, with a 24 hour spell till early this morning, and back on just before 8am.

An interesting fact I found on banding was that the IP Profile was always well below the expected 0.9669 of sync. (0.9679 on standard interleaving). I discovered that I could access the last few days of the AAISP Radius log on my AA control panel, and on re-syncs the speed BT Wholesale were reporting to them was variable as expected, and was the figure being used for the IP Profile. But all the modems were reporting a sync of exactly the banding figure or 1Kbps below it. I could see the banding figures on another AAISP log.

Hope that is useful. I believe the HG612 should now be consigned to history, or perhaps retained for fallback should its better replacement develop a fault.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 23-Feb-17 08:51:55)

Standard User Archetype486
(newbie) Thu 23-Feb-17 09:31:38
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Re: Line Banding


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for that information. Was very useful and I appreciate the long and detailed response.

I know I won't get much more out of my line and I can't really start to complain just yet as there is on a spare 0.9db.

Would like to be moved onto one of the new margin once it was rolled out but I will just have to wait a while more.
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