General Discussion
  >> Fibre Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User agnits
(newbie) Thu 06-Apr-17 11:41:14
Print Post

Fibre and external NTE


[link to this post]
 
How does this work? Obviously I can't plug into the master socket.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 06-Apr-17 12:07:44
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
Assuming you are talking about FTTC/VDSL2, not FTTP, you need an engineer install. The engineer will bypass the master circuitry in the outside box and install an NTE and VDSL2 filter inside the building.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User agnits
(newbie) Thu 06-Apr-17 12:26:53
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

I thought all fibre orders were engineerless now? The ISPs just send you their "free router" and stuff?

I guess OR must know which properties have external NTEs?

Dan


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Apr-17 12:29:02
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
The VDSL2 service may be engineer less (in terms of they don't bring modem to your home) but the phone line install in your case will need an engineer.

Openreach records will reflect premises that have not had an active phone line at them yet

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agnits
(newbie) Thu 06-Apr-17 12:33:45
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
There used to be an active phone line, the last occupiers had one but not fibre. I've placed an order with an ISP and they are telling me that its all fine. BTOR on twitter have said I def need an internal NTE. :/
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 06-Apr-17 12:39:38
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
I agree with Bob, that needs bypassing otherwise you'll have a bridge tap fault on your FTTC service.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Apr-17 13:47:32
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
So if previous residents had a line, what has happened to the wiring?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agnits
(learned) Thu 06-Apr-17 14:52:50
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The internal wiring is just the usual domestic shoddily done extension boxes that I guess are wired into the NTE.

In my last property I just plugged my VDSL modem directly into the BT MK3 faceplate over the master socket.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 06-Apr-17 16:10:47
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by agnits:
The internal wiring is just the usual domestic shoddily done extension boxes that I guess are wired into the NTE.

In my last property I just plugged my VDSL modem directly into the BT MK3 faceplate over the master socket.
Chances are the ISP will send you the hub, and a few filters and away you go. Is the setup perfect, not really, will it work - yes.

If you get the max sync speed it likely will not matter anyway.

What are your estimated speeds?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Apr-17 16:17:05
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
And if not perfect as the wiring in beyond the external NTE resolving is a case of reducing wiring to the point that the closest socket to external NTE is the only wiring connected to the external NTE

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agnits
(learned) Thu 06-Apr-17 16:38:01
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Range A clean speeds;
High: 80
Low: 75.8

Downstream Handback Threshold: 70.4
Standard User agnits
(learned) Thu 06-Apr-17 16:46:52
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
MrSaffron

Is there an easy way of working out which extension is the first one in the chain next to the NTE? Both downstairs extensions are about the same distance away and not that close.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 06-Apr-17 16:52:51
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
If all extension type sockets then the only way is to actually inspect the wiring

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User agnits
(learned) Thu 06-Apr-17 17:02:50
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yea this is the case.
frown
Standard User agnits
(learned) Tue 11-Apr-17 12:33:33
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hi

I had a look at the wiring and I'm pretty sure that the first extension is in the lounge. If I disconnected the correct lot of wires from the block then i'm guessing this would kill the rest of the extensions around the house? I'm guessing this could only be a good thing in terms of connectivity? Also I can remove wire 4?

extension socket
XNTE

I also plugged a phone in and there is a dial tone but the number for the line isn't mine. The previous owners moved to a different area code. Does anyone think this will cause issues when my line is supposed to go live? Or is it a case of my number replaces the current one?

Appreciate any advice as i'm just going off google at the mo.

Dan
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Tue 11-Apr-17 15:23:34
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
If you only have an XNTE and no internal master socket then an engineer will need to disconnect it. An XNTE should never be connected with FTTC. Make sure to share this with any visiting engineer.
Standard User agnits
(learned) Tue 11-Apr-17 15:46:17
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi John, as far as I'm aware its 'engineerless' install.
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Tue 11-Apr-17 15:53:45
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
As you have no phone line an engineer will need to visit to connect an oscillator to your master socket so they can find your pair at the cabinet. Only the fibre part is "engineer-less". That engineer that comes to connect the phone line will install an internal NTE and disconnect the XNTE.

The "engineer install" involves a whole lot more work including connecting your modem to 1 chosen device and fitting an SSFP (MK4 fingered faceplate). They also test the fibre connection to make sure all is fine.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 11-Apr-17 15:54:44)

Standard User agnits
(learned) Tue 11-Apr-17 16:02:43
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
There is already a line there, albeit previous owners, and for some reason is still active. I did a 17070 and the number was not the one that I have been assigned.
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Tue 11-Apr-17 16:06:50
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
They still need to visit to find which pair is yours at the cabinet. They connect an oscillator in your property which sends a signal down the pair, which they detect at the cabinet. The fact there's a line there shouldn't matter.

It shouldn't be active though. Either the previous owner has left it running or OpenReach has mixed your pair at the cabinet.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Apr-17 17:02:38
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
You need to tell the ISP that there is an external NTE and no internal master socket, so ideally you need an engineer install.

There's a high chance the first person you speak to won't have a clue what you are talking about, as external NTEs were a stupid invention that was used for a few years on new build houses then abandoned for precisely this sort of reason.

However, looking at your photograph is should be possible, (and legal), for you to bodge it without much problem. Will you need any more than one socket in the house working? If not, which one do you need? The first one after the external NTE is definitely the best to use. I'll continue on that basis. If you want the modem/router at another, discuss it here before going any further.

The most important connections on that faceplate are those on terminals 2 and 5. Those are in fact all that is needed in most cases. I'll come back to the others later.

While that dial tone exists you need to hunt down all the extensions there are in the house. Check they all have a dial-tone.

Assuming they do, then you need to (gently disconnect either T2 or T5 at the faceplate you have open, making sure the bare wires you now have don't make a contact with anything else, and go round checking again. If all of them have now lost dial-tone, we are in business. Though it could take a while.

As it's probable that either that socket or the other downstairs one is the first, then check the other downstairs one first. If that is off, continue checking all others. If it is still on then reconnect whatever you disconnected and disconnect the same at this other socket and repeat the "all others" test. Including the one you disconnected first, so we can be sure one feeds the other, not both fed from outside.

With luck we have now identified the "first" socket. At that remove the other of T2 or T5 and work out which T2 and T5 wires go back to each of the two incoming cables. Make sure you don't let any wire ends touch, or even touch another terminal while you do this.

Now connect a blue/white from one pair to T2 and the white/blue of the same pair to T5. Do you get a dial-tone. If yes, job largely done. If not swap those for the other pair and check again. That should give a dial-tone. If it doesn't you have probably got the pairing wrong.

T3 is the obsolescent bell/ring wire useful only for some legacy old-type phones and a few substandard modern ones. Not needed anyway if you have a filter or a filtered faceplate. T4 is doing nothing. It has simply been used to park the pairs from T3 out of the way. I recommend you disconnect both T3 (which can cause noise on the line if left connected) and T4 and coil them out of harms way along with the now disconnected ongoing blue/white white/blue pair that fed the daisychain. Do not cut them off.

At this you have a single socket working and need a dangly filter if you wish to use a landline phone. There are ways of converting to a filtered faceplate at this point, but that's another story.

That all sounds complex but is fairly simple. I'd still recommend getting the ISP to arrange an engineer install, where a pukka NTE5C and Mk4 faceplate would be fitted, possibly wherever you choose, nowhere near any existing socket.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Apr-17 17:04:31
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
They still need to visit to find which pair is yours at the cabinet. They connect an oscillator in your property which sends a signal down the pair, which they detect at the cabinet. The fact there's a line there shouldn't matter.
In which case self-installs are impossible.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Tue 11-Apr-17 17:11:22
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I think you're reading me wrong. If the lines active there's no need for an engineer visit. They can connect to the pair at the cabinet and confirm the number. If the lines not active how do they know which pair to use? They visit the property and use an oscillator. What's wrong with that?

edit: to clarify, if you don't have an active phone line, a self-install comes with an engineer to activate the line. The fibre engineer doesn't visit, and only visits the cab.
If you have a phone line, a self-install doesn't require an engineer at all.
If you have no line and order an engineer install, you may even get 2 engineers. 1 to activate the line, and 1 to set up the fibre.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 11-Apr-17 17:29:23)

Standard User agnits
(learned) Tue 11-Apr-17 17:23:08
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Robert. I think I can manage that. The socket in the lounge is where I would have the router, or the other side of the XNTE, either isn't a problem. I've not used a landline phone in years.

The right side of the XNTE doesn't close properly, in the picture there was a bit of crud on that side. As far as I'm aware property is 5 years old.

Edited by agnits (Tue 11-Apr-17 17:25:35)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Apr-17 18:56:17
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
If the XNTE is dodgy, it could be argued that is an Openreach job in itself to fix. At which point changing it to an internal NTE could become free.

Remember we don't know where your lounge socket is, but presumably it is one of the downstairs ones.

What you need to know is that VDSL2, which is what FTTC becomes when it leaves the FTTC cabinet on its copper journey to you, attenuates far more quickly than ADSLx. We all default to recommending the least possible cabling from the NTE, but in your case this isn't likely to matter much.

If the lounge socket turns out to be the first, all well and good. If the other does, it's worth keeping that connected as now with all those wires and seeing if the lounge one is fed from it, then onwards. If so, just disconnecting the onward chain from the lounge would probably not cause any significant difference. Easily altered anyway once you have done the job in the first place.

Still disconnect the T1 and T3 wires on whichever or both.

Another possibility is that the other socket only has one set of wires. That would, in my opinion, rule out using it. It would mean it was the end of a chain all the way round the house, so loads of cabling which would be best avoided.

What you could also do if not installing a landline phone is fit an XTE-68/85 at the chosen socket. (Which size depending on the current back-box size).

It's filtering may not be up to the very latest BT VDSL filter plates but you don't expect to have one of those anyway. Only a dangly filter that could be even worse.

The filtering capability isn't important if you have no phone. The xDSL filters simply prevent xDSL frequencies getting onto the phone circuit, as they would make using the phone impossibly noisy. And also any extraneous electromagnetic noise getting onto the phone cable is prevented from feeding back, disrupting the DSL signal. The complete signal goes straight through all filters to the broadband modem, which simply only looks at the required frequencies. The phone frequencies just ignored by it.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 63790/13596Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 11-Apr-17 18:56:56
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
I also plugged a phone in and there is a dial tone but the number for the line isn't mine.

*Possibly* an engineering number, is your number supposed to be live already ?

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 11-Apr-17 19:00:09
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
They still need to visit to find which pair is yours at the cabinet.

I'm betting that the number present will be renumbered on the go live date.

Standard User agnits
(learned) Tue 11-Apr-17 22:38:01
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Number goes live on 20 April.

Seems like previous owners didn't cancel their ADSL2 either; looks like a fairly decent line? for ADSL2 at least.. My last line synced at around 19mb on ADSL2.

http://i.imgur.com/BxhcnXk.png
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Apr-17 06:17:36
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
So yes, that's just an old or temp number till your go live date.

It looks like you could walk to the exchange and ask there in about a minute smile

Standard User agnits
(learned) Fri 21-Apr-17 14:41:15
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi Roberto

Thanks for this, I followed your instructions below (now above smile) and found it really easy to follow, less than 20mins which I thought was quick with my sausage fingers.

At the moment I'm using an old ADSL filter but I'll look at getting something better.

It turned out to be a 'managed' install in the end. OR engineer didn't fit an internal NTE although I did ask. smile Syncing at around 78~. At the old house I was 86~ and that line was longer. Min guaranteed speed is 73mb so well within tolerance.

Would a better filter make any difference to sync speed? I'm not using a phone. Not that a few mb make much difference I suppose.

Dan

Edited by agnits (Fri 21-Apr-17 14:52:26)

Standard User agnits
(learned) Fri 21-Apr-17 14:51:43
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Hi Zarjaz

Yeah exchange is very close, EAGMS. Our lines used to be EO, had to run up there when Morrison Utility were moving them onto the new cabinet. They somehow reconnected my line and crossed it with another. I could hear someone else's 1571s. I didn't like them much.. smile
Standard User j0hn83
(member) Fri 21-Apr-17 15:23:53
Print Post

Re: Fibre and external NTE


[re: agnits] [link to this post]
 
They didn't fit an internal NTE? I would tell your ISP you have no internal NTE and are still connected to an XNTE. They should send an OpenReach engineer to correct that.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 21-Apr-17 15:24:25)

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to